{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/pn8x922108/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Alderman, Norman, 2005 February 12"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/013/original/yale-blue.png?1678220072","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Preferred Citation"]},"value":{"en":["Alderman, Norman, 2005 February 12. Oral Histories Documenting New Haven, Connecticut (RU 1055). Manuscripts and Archives, Yale University Library.\n\n https://archives.yale.edu/repositories/12/resources/2867."]}},{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["https://archives.yale.edu/repositories/12/archival_objects/1002503"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["Manuscripts and Archives, Yale University Library."]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["The materials are open for research.\n\nOriginal audiovisual materials, as well as preservation and duplicating masters, may not be played. Researchers must consult use copies, or if none exist must pay for a use copy, which is retained by the repository. Researchers wishing to obtain an additional copy for their personal use should consult Copying Services information on the Manuscripts and Archives web site."]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["mssa.ru.1055 (EAD ID)","RU 1055 (Call Number)","ru_1055_2008-A-001_Alderman,Norman(Brogadir).mp3 (Digital Object ID)","ru_1055_2008-A-001_Alderman,Norman(Brogadir)_Track01.mp3 (Digital Object ID)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2005 February 12 (Creation)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["Norman Alderman is the third-generation owner of Alderman-Dow Iron and Metal Company, the oldest scrap metal business in New Haven, founded in 1895. Alderman discusses the nature of the scrap metal business, and Jewish and family businesses in general. He offers his views on business development in New Haven in the second half of the twentieth century. Alderman-Dow had to move from its original location on Dow Street in the Oak Street neighborhood because of urban renewal. \n\nInterviewer: Brogadir, Benjamin \n\nLength (min): 46 (Scope and Content Note)","https://preservica.library.yale.edu/explorer/explorer.html#prop:4\u0026amp;fd022384-10a5-42a6-8ffd-30f07cbb6034 (Other Finding Aid Note)","As a preservation measure, original materials may not be used. Digital access copies must be provided for use. Contact Manuscripts and Archives at beinecke.library@yale.edu to request access (Accessrestrict)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["computer files (wav)","audio/mpeg"]}},{"label":{"en":["Preservica Representation Type"]},"value":{"en":["Access-3"]}},{"label":{"en":["Preservica Uri"]},"value":{"en":["/structural-objects/c2ef27aa-2afa-4429-8e27-9d9d432c3270"]}}],"summary":{"en":["Norman Alderman is the third-generation owner of Alderman-Dow Iron and Metal Company, the oldest scrap metal business in New Haven, founded in 1895. Alderman discusses the nature of the scrap metal business, and Jewish and family businesses in general. He offers his views on business development in New Haven in the second half of the twentieth century. Alderman-Dow had to move from its original location on Dow Street in the Oak Street neighborhood because of urban renewal. \n\nInterviewer: Brogadir, Benjamin \n\nLength (min): 46","https://preservica.library.yale.edu/explorer/explorer.html#prop:4\u0026amp;fd022384-10a5-42a6-8ffd-30f07cbb6034","As a preservation measure, original materials may not be used. Digital access copies must be provided for use. Contact Manuscripts and Archives at beinecke.library@yale.edu to request access"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["The materials are open for research.\n\nOriginal audiovisual materials, as well as preservation and duplicating masters, may not be played. Researchers must consult use copies, or if none exist must pay for a use copy, which is retained by the repository. Researchers wishing to obtain an additional copy for their personal use should consult Copying Services information on the Manuscripts and Archives web site."]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Manuscripts and Archives Yale University Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Manuscripts and Archives Yale University Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/013/original/yale-blue.png?1678220072","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/988/collection_resources/26084/file/92513","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 2 - open-uri20200615-6634-ujtbvl.mpga"]},"duration":2756.93714,"width":640,"height":40,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/988/collection_resources/26084/file/92513/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/988/collection_resources/26084/file/92513/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-yalemssa.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/092/513/original/open-uri20200615-6634-ujtbvl.mpga?1592237381","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2756.93714,"width":640,"height":40},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/988/collection_resources/26084/file/92513","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/988/collection_resources/26084/file/92513/transcript/19303","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Legacy Transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/988/collection_resources/26084/file/92513/transcript/19303/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Norman Alderman, interviewed by Ben Brogadir. February 12, 2005. NHOHP 079.\r\n\r\nOwner of Alderman Dow Iron and Metal Company Inc.\r\n\r\n[TRACK 1]\r\n\r\nBen Brogadir: I’m here with Mr. Norman Alderman.  It’s February 12th and we are talking about the development of business in New Haven.  The first question I’d like to direct (to you) is the name of your company, the background of it, the history of it.  If you could start us of that way.\r\n\r\nNorman Alderman:  The company name is the Alderman Dow Iron and Metal Company Incorporated.  We’ve been in business since 1895.  The company was founded by my grandfather and my son, Jason, is now working with me so the company is now a fourth generation business.  We are the oldest scrap metal business in New Haven.  The scrap industry has probably grown some over the years from its founding which were basically very small family businesses, many of whom were of Jewish or Italian backgrounds.  In the New Haven area per say, the Schiavone Company which has since been purchased by Metal Management was the biggest of the scrap businesses followed by a slew of 10 or 12 businesses owned by Jewish families, many of whom have gone out of business over the years either through attrition, bankruptcy, merger.  You’re probably just down to two of us left and one of them is about to go out also.  So we’re the last one standing kind of situation.  \r\n\r\nBen Brogadir:  Alright, would you say in terms of mentioning that a lot of them (businesses) were coming from Jewish or Italian decent, that there was a commonality, or specific countries that the Jews seem to have came from which all correlate to New Haven?  Or would you say there are specific businesses or locations in New Haven that are a common thread amongst Jewish businessmen today or in the past?\r\n\r\nNorman Alderman:  I think when they probably all started and when a lot of these founders of the businesses came over to what’s commonly referred to as “The Old Country,” be it Russia, Poland, wherever they came from over seas, a lot of the Jewish merchants who started these businesses, started these businesses because they really were able to get into business for themselves through hard work without a lot of opposition or persecution that they would have suffered over seas, and they were prepared to do the work and start off their businesses that didn’t need a lot of financial backing at the time to start some of these businesses because of the port areas and the industry that was in the area back then, the scrap business became somewhat of a natural business for them because they all saw the potential for it.  I assume most of them came through Ellis Island in New York and went up and down the east coast.  How my grandfather settled in New Haven, I don’t have the answer for that.  I know they came from Russia, Vilna Russia I believe, and they started this business.  His business particularly, his brother and he had started it.  My understanding is they came on some hard times and his brother ultimately left the business and paid off some of the debt they had encountered and my grandfather had moved the business to Dow street in New Haven.  That’s the Dow in our name, there was never a partner, and kept that name when the business was moved in the early fifties by the first redevelopment parcels in New Haven.  My father chose to keep the name because of the goodwill and longevity of the name and at the point there was industry in the New Haven area.  There is certainly less industry in the New Haven area now and we’ve branched out over the years, we serve as accounts throughout the state of Connecticut.  The industrial base has probably declined in the state of Connecticut as it has throughout the northeast.  So there has been an attrition of scrap businesses and what has been forced to go further out and serve broader areas to get your business.  Why it was predominantly Jewish and Italian, I assume they are businesses that were able to get into without very much opposition in the Anglo-Saxon community I guess.   \r\n\r\nBen Brogadir:  You mentioned that your grandfather was the one who started the business and that is has been a family business throughout.  Would you say that most of the businesses, particularly the Jewish business owners, have maintained the business within their families or would you say that is a common theme in businesses in general that, they have been family traditions or would you say that pertains more toward the Jewish family smaller orientated businesses that kind of came about?\r\n\r\nNorman Alderman:  I’m not sure it just pertains to the Jewish orientated smaller businesses.  I think there was a wealth of smaller businesses started in the community by a lot of these immigrants, be they small retail operations, butchers, bakers, any of these kinds of things, small merchants, hard wear stores, food stores.  A lot of them, I think, are second generation that moved into the businesses, but by the third generation you’re seeing people branch out into other areas.  Certainly by the fourth generation I think it’s very unique.  I know it’s unique in our kind of business.  People are somewhat shocked when my son tells them that he is a fourth generation in this business and one of his interests in coming back was the fact that he likes the history of the business, likes the fact that it is a fourth generation, I think he also likes the fact that his name is on the door (laughter).  But, I think there is, I’m not sure it’s indigenous to the scrap business at all.  I think a lot of businesses, once u get beyond (or) into the third generation, there has either been a lot of business problems between siblings or other interests in moving into other directions, certainly into the fourth generation so you don’t have as many businesses, certainly like ours, that are into the fourth generation.  You have a lot more that may have been sold or merged into larger operations or have been dissolved for various in sundry reasons. \r\n\r\n[TRACK 2]\r\n\r\nQ:  You mentioned earlier when we were talking that you grew up in New Haven and you kind of watched the whole development of businesses from retail to manufacturing and you’ve kind of seen the whole cycle of business.  Can you talk a little about your experience and how business has developed in New Haven, what was popular in the past, what’s popular now, kind of the whole reconstruction a little bit?\r\n\r\nNorman Alderman:  I think the manufacturing base, as I said earlier, has certainly declined in the New Haven area, partly because of the technology that has come about and the work ethic of the people has changed over the years.  The overseas competition to be sure, has taken a lot over seas these days, but even previous to so much business going over seas, you were losing a lot through the whole northeast corridor to which New Haven certainly fits in.  You were losing a lot of business to the South where people weren’t as concerned with weather concerns and labor costs were cheaper, and they were able to build more modern plants on spacious parcels of land than you had hear.  So the manufacturing end has clearly been in a decline.  New Haven itself, when I was a young man, and I’m pushing 62 at this point in another couple of months, was a retail hub.  Downtown New Haven as a kid, where as someplace I grew up, was someplace you went to for shopping, for movies, even for going out to dinner.  The retail end of New Haven has clearly declined over the years.  There are no department stores in the city now.  There hasn’t been for several years.  All the small merchants has been forced to go out as the downtown areas became less attractive and weren’t maintained as well and you had the growth of shopping centers, this is not indigenous to New Haven to be sure, but throughout the country probably, a lot of the downtown areas suffered, you didn’t have the major traffic patterns certainly in New Haven that you had in New York or Boston or other major cities, not only along the east coast but throughout the country which brought people in to support these businesses and as it was easier, and people had more money were able to have automobiles and drive to the suburbs, you had the growth of malls.  So, the downtown shopping had really declined appreciably for years.  What was considered the heart of downtown had an abundance of vacant buildings.  In recent years, a lot of these building are being turned into apartment complexes, condo associations, you’ve had a regeneration and rebirth of entertainment areas in downtown New Haven.  A lot of restaurants, this new movie theater that has recently opened up, the Criterion, is the first downtown theater since outside of the York Square theater up in the Yale community, up by Broadway, is the first downtown theater that you’ve had built in New Haven in probably twenty, twenty-five years when there was virtually a half-dozen movie theaters in New Haven that all closed.  So, you’ve gone, I believe, in downtown New Haven from a retail center, going through a long period of decline, where now you see this revival  as more a housing area for in town condos and apartments, restaurants, night clubs, but you don’t see a lot of retail.  There is some finer shops on upper Chapel Street but there’s not a lot of retail coming back in at this point.  Hopefully, they’ll be some coming in with the mall when they redo the mall.  But at this point, you’ve seen the turn around in New Haven from retail to slums, at least coming back some, the facilities are being used, but being used in other areas besides retail.\r\n\r\nBen Brogadir:  Would you say a lot of the transition from the more retail type of businesses to the restaurants, and the clubs, and the more downtown type of stuff that is there now, would you say the Yale community and the construction of the University and its development has affected the role of businesses and how has that maybe affected your business?  How has it affected downtown business?  \r\n\r\nNorman Alderman:  Well there’s no question that Yale is clearly important to the entire New Haven community.  Not only in providing jobs, but the ongoing renovation of all the buildings here have certainly provided a lot of work for construction companies, plumbers, electricians, and probably for us also in the scrap business because there’s a lot of this material that is being replaced it is clearly being (pause) recycled and will certainly end up with some of that material.  I think the Yale community has…you certainly can’t blame the Yale community for the decline of shopping in the area.  If anything the only shopping that’s left in this area is left in the upper Chapel Street area and the Broadway area which is probably supported more by the Yale Community.  It’s the downtown area which really has gone into somewhat of a decline over the years and I assume a lot of these apartment buildings and condos that are being built, some of which will be taken over by Yale people.  So I mean clearly Yale has a positive affect on the city of New Haven.  The problems that it had, I don’t think it’ll be related back to Yale at all.  If anything, they’ll help pull it out.  And a lot of the biotech that’s coming into the area now, certainly a lot of that is related to the Yale community and that seems to be the growth area of the city at this point.\r\n\r\nBen Brogadir:  Can you talk a little about the biotech boom.  I don’t know if you’re familiar with the specific types of companies that have come in and how that’s affected other businesses and driven out other businesses.  Cause I am aware that there is a pretty big biotech boom in New Haven right now and that seems to be kind of like the new generation of business in New Haven.  I don’t know if you want to elaborate on…\r\n\r\n[TRACK 3]\r\n\r\nNorman Alderman:  I don’t know an awful lot about that.  I don’t think they’ve driven out any other businesses.  I think to a large extent, they’ve brought business into New Haven and they kind of feed on themselves.  Once you have some biotech businesses here, others come in.  They clearly aren’t forcing businesses out.  If anything, they’re taking over properties that have been vacated by other businesses which helps the tax base of the city to be sure, and hopefully they’ll feed on themselves and you know, it’ll be a growth period for the area of New Haven in other areas then we’ve known historically be it retail or manufacturing but that seems to be the direction of where the city is heading at this point in the business community.\r\n\r\n[TRACK 4]\r\n\r\nBen Brogadir:  Just as Jewish businessman and women have developed their businesses in the past with retail or manufacturing or whatever, and now the biotech boom has taken place; would you say in general, New Haven, the city of New Haven, is a good place to start a business and maybe what are some of the factors such as the airport, the harbor, what their role is in the development of businesses and if New Haven is in general a hot spot in terms of starting your own business?\r\n\r\nNorman Alderman:  I think it depends very much on the type of business that you’re looking to start.  Having just said the growth of the biotech community, I think that’s probably an area where certainly you’ll see more start up businesses come in.  I think the airport does play a key role in that.  There’s been talk for years of trying to expand the Tweed Airport and I think the Regional Growth Planning Commission and those in the leadership positions will tell you the importance of an airport, be it biotech, be it for the university, be it for manufacturing, and any other kind of business.  You have to have easy accessibility for people to come in and out of your area.  I think the airport becomes key.  Bradley Field in Hartford isn’t that far away, it’s certainly more convenient to have your own airport.  The harbor is being used for certain areas of certain kinds of businesses.  There is probably the potential to develop that further.  But the harbor is being used and that is key for certain heavy industries, manufacturing industries, that ship material out of the city and more importantly, bring material into the city, be it steel, or lumber, or metal.  For years, I know that Saab automobiles use to come into New Haven, that is not the case now, but the potential is there for expansion of that harbor also and I think that is very important for the growth of any kinds of businesses.  It’s tougher to start up a manufacturing business in New Haven or probably almost anywhere in the east coast because of your higher energy costs, your high labor costs, limited land availability.  The cost of doing business in the state of Connecticut is very expensive, so people who have options may chose to go elsewhere based on the kinds of businesses that you are starting.  As I’ve said, with biotech, it seems to be a good growth area but if you have a capital intense business, this probably isn’t an area one would chose to come in and begin his business.  The retail, hopefully that will continue to grow a little bit as New Haven continues to grow its downtown area, but you’re obviously bucking a nation trend of most of your retail seems to be in malls and suburban areas with easier shopping, uh, easier parking and expansion shopping areas.  I think that’s probably a given based on the size of the city and the population that comes in.  Clearly, this is not New York or Boston or a major eastern city or a major city across the country where you get a lot of tourism coming in that can support a lot of these stores and the local community, at this point, seems more inclined to be shopping in the suburbs.  So it may be a little more difficult to start up retail businesses in the New Haven downtown area, but clearly, I guess a lot of us may have questioned how many restaurants could be opened in downtown New Haven and be successful but clearly has become a magnet for people to come back downtown at least in the evenings, be it for the theaters, the Shubert and Long Wharf, the Yale Rep and all these other theaters that are there and all these restaurants that are able to seemingly survive and do well because of the influx of a young crowd of and beyond just the Yale community that comes into the area.\r\n\r\nBen Brogadir:  So running your own business would you say in general, New Haven is competitive in terms of labor costs, and demographics, access to railroads and the harbor, and stuff like that, would you that their costs are high or would you say they are pretty competitive?\r\n\r\n[TRACK 5]\r\n\r\nNorman Alderman:  Well they are probably competitive within the state of Connecticut and within the east, northeast corridor.  Clearly labor costs are higher in this state then in southern states, and clearly overseas.  If you get into the Asian market, we in the scrap business export a lot of material into the Asian markets and a lot of that of course is dollar related.  One cannot economically process material in this country with the labor rates that you have as to what’s being done in the Asian market.  So a lot of lower grade items that are labor intense, we have been exporting for years.  Having said that, the Asian market, particularly the Chinese markets nowadays are aggressive in all areas, not just in the lower grades of material.  They are looking for all kinds of prime grades also.  But you know, the cost of doing business in the state of Connecticut is very expensive and I would question start up businesses coming in.  You know, you have some old-line businesses here that have been taking over.  I mean the old Ives Company has changed hands several times, the facility is still here with Ives being a division, I think of the Herald Company now although it’s changed several times.  The Sargent Company   having been taken over by Assa Abbloy overseas, you know, there is not a lot of big businesses left in New Haven that don’t have the parent company.  \r\n\r\nBen Brogadir:  Would you say that the scrap metal business in particular has thrived in New Haven or that there is a big market in New Haven?  Talk a little bit about the history of your business and why your grandfathers maybe chose the scrap metal business and all that…\r\n\r\nNorman Alderman:  I would assume my grandfather chose the scrap metal business because it was something that he could get into, I mean, ya know, without any difficulty.  In those days I believe when the business started it was probably a push-cart operation with him pushing the push cart through neighborhoods taking whatever recyclable materials:  rags, papers, as well as metal, probably tires too that anyone was able to give out.  I mean the scrap metal industry was recyclers before it was both environmentally imperative and a fashionable kind of term, albeit for a profit motive, but we in the scrap industry have recycled forever.  We’ve always recycled the more economical items, the metallic items, both the ferrous and the nonferrous materials rather than all the items that need to be recycled today that are not profitable in terms of cogeneration plants, and paper, and glass, and these kinds of things that are much more costly to recycle and don’t have the same market value as our materials.  Why he chose New Haven, I’m really not sure other than the fact that the proximity after they came off the boat from overseas, he maybe saw an opportunity at this point.  You don’t see any new scrap businesses starting up very much.  The cities don’t want them within the city limits.  I mean nobody wants a scrap yard or in a vernacular, junkyard if you will, in their backyard or near them.  You know, they’re somewhat eyesores, but they’re needed.  There has to be an area where things can be recycled.  Our business has grown partly, as I said earlier, by servicing areas throughout the state of Connecticut, not just the New Haven area.  If anything, there’s less manufacturing in the New Haven area.  Our business has survived and grown some by the attrition of other businesses in the area albeit through dissolvment, bankruptcy, or takeovers.  Having said I think earlier, that we are probably the last one standing has probably helped us.  It’s not a growth area for the scrap business.  Frankly, a couple years ago, I was somewhat concerned over the future of the business. It’s been greatly integrated over the last few years by strength in the metal markets.  In the 38 years I have been doing this, I’ve never seen all the metal markets as strong at the same time.  When I say all the metal markets, each metal has its own market, be it the copper market, the nickel market, the aluminum market, the steel market, the lead market, you name the metal, it has its own market; and over the course of time, you can see strength in one of those areas, but not all of them.  Nowadays, you have copper and nickel in particularly at all-time highs, you have steel, which is starting to decline a little bit now, at all-time highs, which has been very good on our end of the business, very costly for the manufacturing sector because they’re paying so much more for the raw material to make their products.  One need not be an economic genius in the scrap business; at high prices you have a greater opportunity to make money, your costs are somewhat constant.  If you’re dealing and handling steel that’s worth 50 dollars a ton or 150 dollars a ton, your costs don’t necessarily change but your potential to make a little more money on the higher priced item is there even if you do it just on a flat percentage basis, obviously you can make more money: 10% of 150 dollars then 10% at 50 dollars, just to use a crude example.\r\n\r\nBen Brogadir:  You mentioned that a lot of companies have been taken over or some have succeeded.  Obviously, your company has had a lot of success, and has kind of, you know, fought of the competition sort of speak (laughs), as the other companies either got bought our or deteriorated for whatever reason.  What would you say some of the events or struggles that New Haven has kind of forced upon companies that have either been bought out or shut down?  Would you say there are any common kind of threads…\r\n\r\nNorman Alderman:  I don’t think there is a common thread that the city had anything to do with.  I think it was more business decisions by the individual companies.  The only involvement that the city would of have, using the broader terms of, you know the city in terms of its manufacturing base, for a variety of reasons.  Manufacturing does not thrive in the city of New Haven at this point. There’s less and less manufacturing businesses that are left in New Haven proper for a variety of reasons.  A lot of them have either gone out of business or moved to more suburban or areas other than the city of New Haven.  I think the Waterbury Valley was always more of a manufacturing base than New Haven to begin with and clearly what has survived in the state is still more in the greater Waterbury area than in New Haven, or for that matter Hartford on that same account.\r\n\r\nBen Brogadir:  And would you say that most of the business that your company does, and maybe other smaller companies around here, would you say it’s mostly done with the university?  I mean, you mentioned there’s not much tourism so obviously you’re not doing much business with, you know, people outside of New Haven in terms of like the local restaurants, downtown New Haven, and stuff like that.  How would you say that your company in particular does most of its business within New Haven or a lot of export-import type stuff? \r\n\r\nNorman Alderman:  Most of our…we run both an industrial and retail ends of our business.  Most of our industrial business, \r\n\r\n[TRACK 6] \r\n\r\nthat being accounts, in the scrap business your accounts are the people from whom you buy.  Your economic set up in the scrap business is reversed.  My customers are the people from whom I buy.  I’m the customer for the people that I sell to.  We buy from various manufacturing facilities in our industrial end and we’ll service those accounts either with container service or pick-up service of some sort.  These are companies that make various products and have metal as a byproduct of their operation, be they a stamping house making parts in the automobile industry, or a machine shop, or spacecraft does a lot of business at this point.  You get the byproducts from the various nickel alloys used in the jet engines and things of this sort.  So most of my industrial business is out of the New Haven area per say.  We certainly have counts in New Haven proper and in New Haven country, but we do cover the whole state.  Almost all of our retail business comes from the greater New Haven area, that’s scrap that comes in from plumbers, electricians, contractors, some of whom could be involved with Yale and some of the renovation.  If they are replacing, you know, dorms in New Haven and tearing out bathrooms, that brass, and copper, and steel piping, and cast iron sinks, and those things will ultimately be recycled.  We’ll get, you know, we are one of the people who buy that kind of material.  We do have retail costumers that come in from the other parts of the state also, but clearly, as you know one of the last New Haven dealers, a lot of our retail business comes in from New Haven.  That would include the people that I just mentioned, contractors who are doing aluminum siding when someone redoes their house, the siding that comes off ultimately is recycled.  We would by the aluminum, we’d buy the steel, we’d buy the cast iron, we’d buy anything ferrous or nonferrous.  So all of that, you know, our retail costumers, can be guys from automobile people who were dismantling cars, we don’t take cars per say, but we’ll buy the scrap materials from them; the aluminum wheels, the radiators in the car, the batteries in the car, the steel from the automobile; the plumbers they said, their copper and brass; the electricians, their insolated wire, some of the wire that they’ll strip; any of the steel in cast iron that is done in the dismantling of (unintelligible).  So a lot of that in the retail end, is certainly in the New Haven area. \r\n\r\n[TRACK 7]\r\n\r\nBen Brogadir:  Would you say with the growth of New Haven and the development of the city, your company has grown and diversified or would you say it’s been pretty constant throughout the whole process?\r\n\r\nNorman Alderman:  Well, we’ve hopefully grown some, diversified probably not.  Basically, we take ferrous and nonferrous scrap in the recycling process.  We are deemed a manufacturer by S.I Seacoat of a finished product that could be sold to a smelter, an ingot maker, or a refiner.  A scrap dealer buys, processes, sorts, and prepares material so that when we sell it on to these various consumers, they’re buying trailer load or cargo lots of one particular item.  That’s umm…I don’t know that New Haven per say has had an impact on any growth that, you know, may or may not have taken place but diversification, other air companies have diversified into plastics and some of the other areas in their recycling waste stream.  We have not gotten involved in any of the waste products partly because of the logistics, the space, the people and the time to do them, partly because they are not as profitable areas to go into.  People have made money, and that to be sure, but scrap metal per say is not waste.  Scrap metal are products that are being traded on international exchanges.  You deal with products being exchanged on the London Metal Exchange, the New York Commodity Exchange; these are traded metal prices that we deal with.  We don’t deal with basic things that the consumer might consider to be recyclables but that go into the waste stream and have to be recycled out of the waste stream.\r\n\r\nBen Brogadir:  Kind of comparing your businesses to others in New Haven, what would you say some of the more popular businesses around New Haven have been or some of the more successful?  What types of businesses?  Or would you say that there’s not really a certain type of business but more on an individual (trial) basis?  Would you say there’s a common type of business that thrives in New Haven or would you say that it’s pretty much a trial basis?\r\n\r\nNorman Alderman:  Yeah, I think its probably more of the latter.  Be it New Haven or any other community, you have diverse businesses, some of whom do succeed, others do not for whatever the reasons entailed.  I don’t think there’s a common thread of all people in any one industry being totally successful or unsuccessful.  I think as in any kind of business, some people do better than others for whatever the reasons, and have more longevity than others, but I don’t know that there’s a trend of anybody in any one industry becoming…everybody that’s gone into it has been successful or has been successful for a long period of time.  Clearly there are businesses that do very well for a period of time and then for whatever the reasons, if they’re personal, or that are related to the principles of the company, or if they’re involved in the larger community, they may or may not succeed.  But I don’t know that there’s one area that you can put your hard on that everybody’s been successful or unsuccessful or tie that into the area, be it New Haven or anywhere else, that you are able to do business. \r\n\r\n[TRACK 9]\r\n\r\nBen Brogadir:  Alright so taking out, say the success factor, would you say there was a common popular industry or business versus today versus in the past, or would you say it’s pretty diverse in terms of businesses in general?  \r\n\r\nNorman Alderman:  Well, I think New Haven area businesses, as we’ve said, are fairly diverse.  The thrust now for growth seems to be in the biotech field.  There’s probably less in the manufacturing field.  There’s less in the retail in downtown per say.  There clearly has been in the restaurant field and the entertainment field in New Haven.  You know, part of that is related to technology too and part of that is probably related to the work ethic of individuals involved today.  Clearly, everyone’s become more in tuned with a better lifestyle then probably their parents or grandparents had and are trying to do things that are less physically taxing for them and, you know, using their minds more and using the technological expertise that’s available today.  I think that’s had an effect probably on the manufacturing sector, certainly on heavy industry, and the growth of those kinds of businesses.\r\n\r\nBen Brogadir:  Alright, I want to kind of take your history of growing up in New Haven and your experience as a business owner, if you were to say, start a business now in New Haven, where would you say would be the best location for it?  Would you say there would be a hot particular type of business maybe other than biotech?  Would you recommend a certain business in New Haven?  Stuff like that; I don’t know if you have any feeling on that, kind of look in your crystal ball if you will…\r\n\r\nNorman Alderman:  Yeah, crystal ball, no crystal ball.  I’d think it would very difficult to start a manufacturing business in New Haven at this point, at least heavy industry capital intense manufacturing businesses.  You know, manufacturing becomes a broader term.  To me, a manufacturing businesses are always something I’d like to think would be working with metal and generating a byproduct and have something for the scrap industry obviously on a personal basis, but that’s, you know, there’s all kinds of manufacturing.  I guess what you gear towards these days is light manufacturing, more than heavy industry.  It’s probably, I don’t know if there’s any one industry that would be better than another.  I think, as always, there are people that will start businesses that would be more successful.  I think, as you’ve said, other than the biotech area, you’ve had a lot of restaurants start in the area, you’ve had, you know, some night clubs and entertainment businesses.  There’s fewer of the manufacturing businesses.  I think the labor issues become a big, big problem in trying to get people to try to work at more mundane kinds of jobs and correlate that with the dollars that the businesses can afford to pay them and the dollars people want to earn these days.  And, you know, factor in, which is not indigenous to New Haven once again, your insurance costs are somewhat prohibitive, if you take on medical costs for employees, you have a lot of serious expenses to start the business up and everybody wants full benefits these days. And, you know, I’m not saying they’re certainly not entitled to them but there’s a definitely a cost factor there.  So I’m not sure there’s one particular business I could key in on that one would be inclined to start up here.  You know, there is potential in the New Haven area though because of the proximity of the harbor and the airport if it’s ever going to be further developed beyond where you are at this point.  And you have a relatively intelligent educated workforce available, but you have to factor in everything.  I mean the cost of living in this area is relatively high.  I think people are going to begin business, if you’re not tied to the area, you probably will find more attractive areas for certain kinds of businesses, but it depends on the kind of business that you’re looking to start up.  I mean, obviously the greater New Haven area has a big enough population to support new businesses that are coming in and businesses are always beginning, but I’m not sure that I would zero in on one kind of business.  I just don’t have the answer for that.\r\n\r\n[TRACK 10]\r\n\r\nBen Brogadir:  Looking kind of at the city of New Haven, the future of the city, would you say, do you foresee any problems occurring in maybe your business or businesses across the board as New Haven kind of develops or you wouldn’t say that New Haven is presenting any problem?\r\n\r\nNorman Alderman:  The problems in our business is, I’m sure the city of New Haven would just as soon not have any scrap yards in the city.  I mean clearly our proximity is nearer to downtown New Haven then any other scrap business at this point.  Although when we relocated to Chapel Street, when my father relocated during the first redevelopment parcel in New Haven back in the early 50’s, it seemed I can remember him complaining even though I was a young boy at that point, that they were moving him so far away from the internal part of the city which he thought was so important.  As it turns out, the interstate, you know our business is sort of at the junctions of Interstates 91 and 95, which at this point is probably very good.  Back then, before the interstates were built, he was very concerned.  So, you know, times and circumstances do change over the course of time.  But in terms of potential growth of our business, I’m not sure that there’s anything, you know, that New Haven per say is going to do that will help us per say.  Not that they will hinder us other than maybe force us out one day; take us by eminent domain as they did when they did on, took my father on Dow Street.  \r\n\r\nBen Brogadir:  Could you talk a little bit about your father’s or your grandfather’s relocation?  Where he relocated to?  From?  Why, why the city kind of pushed him out?  Stuff like that.\r\n\r\nNorman Alderman:  Well, the, when my father relocated the business, the business had been on Dow Street, sort of two businesses in from the corner of Oak and Dow, and had been there for more than 50 years when redevelopment took place in downtown New Haven in the early 1950’s, the 1st parcel that they took was that area, which affected certainly his business, it affected, actually as we mentioned earlier, some of the Jewish merchants.  The Oak Street area was a hub of small business, Jewish activity, and that whole area was taken as part of the redevelopment parcel.  It’s in an area where the Yale-New Haven Hospital now stands and has been expanding, where the Route 34 connector comes in, in that whole area.  That was just growth in the city of New Haven.  I don’t know that it was any personal attack on his business or anybody else’s business, it just was an area where they saw the potential to redevelop and he was taken at that point.  You know, I think as with a lot of cases at the time, and everything being put in terms of the activity at the time, he didn’t think he was getting enough money when the city took him by eminent domain and didn’t give him enough money for relocation costs, etc.  But that’s probably not atypical of any business taken by eminent domain and, you know, hopefully these things are for the better of the total community then just the individual business.  But it was a difficult time for him.  It’s worked out alright to be sure at this point but he was very concerned at the time.\r\n\r\nBen Brogadir:  And would you say, or do you have any feeling about the location of your business now and why your father chose where it is today?\r\n\r\nNorman Alderman:  Well I’m not sure he chose, well he probably chose from various alternatives, but as I said earlier, he thought it was way far out from the hub of business activity at the time, but that was back in the early 50s.  He worked with the relocation department of the city at the time, to the best of my understanding of it, and this area was ultimately decided upon.  I don’t know that he had an awful lot of options; I assume he had some, but I’m not even sure of that.  But he, I know his interest was keeping the business in the city of New Haven and that was as good as he was able to do it at the time.  \r\n\r\nBen Brogadir:  Did most businesses that had to relocate, relocate to where your business is on Church Street?\r\n\r\nNorman Alderman:  No, far from it.  Our business on Chapel Street…\r\n\r\nBen Brogadir:  Oh Chapel…\r\n\r\nNorman Alderman:  …is down on the other end in the industrial end of the city where really, down by the harbor, as I say, almost where Interstates 91 and 95 intersect.  It’s an industrial zone.  I think the other businesses, a lot of the other businesses that were forced out, which were probably more retail store operations, relocated to various sundry areas with a higher population density.  We certainly didn’t need that for our business, as I said, he thought it was far out at that point, but it was in an industrial zone and, you know, that was probably, as it turned out, a much better location for us then being in the city because of its proximity to the interstates and to the harbor.  \r\n\r\nBen Brogadir:  Okay, I think that’s going to do for this interview, I just want to thank you.  I’ll turn this thing off for you.\r\n\r\nNorman Alderman:  Thank you Ben, it’s been (a) pleasure.  I hope I’ve been some helpful to you.\r\n\r\nBen Brogadir:  You have been.\r\n\r\n[END]\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/988/collection_resources/26084/file/92513#t=0.0,2756.93714"}]}]},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/988/collection_resources/26084/file/238519","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 2 of 2 - open-uri20240326-2906522-e714o0.mpga"]},"duration":432.79674,"width":640,"height":40,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/988/collection_resources/26084/file/238519/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/988/collection_resources/26084/file/238519/content/2/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-yalemssa.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/238/519/original/open-uri20240326-2906522-e714o0.mpga?1711449253","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":432.79674,"width":640,"height":40},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/988/collection_resources/26084/file/238519","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[]}]}