{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/kp7tm72b2d/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["\"American Interests,\" PBS, 1984 April 9"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/013/original/yale-blue.png?1678220072","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["mssa.ms.1981 (EAD ID)","MS 1981  (Call Number)","ms_1981_s07_b0909.u.mov (Digital Object ID)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["videocassettes_(vhs)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["1984 April 9 (Creation)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["https://preservica.library.yale.edu/explorer/explorer.html#prop:4\u0026amp;43c38d32-6545-40f2-9a09-4fe1c961e511 (Other Finding Aid Note)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":[]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["The materials are open for research.","Researchers must register and agree to the Yale University Library User Agreement for Special Collections before accessing audiovisual material in this collection."]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["Manuscripts and Archives, Yale University Library."]}},{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["https://archives.yale.edu/repositories/12/archival_objects/2076694"]}},{"label":{"en":["Preferred Citation"]},"value":{"en":["\"American Interests,\" PBS, 1984 April 9. Henry A. Kissinger Papers, Part II (MS 1981). Manuscripts and Archives, Yale University Library. https://archives.yale.edu/repositories/12/resources/5211."]}}],"summary":{"en":["https://preservica.library.yale.edu/explorer/explorer.html#prop:4\u002643c38d32-6545-40f2-9a09-4fe1c961e511"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["The materials are open for research.","Researchers must register and agree to the Yale University Library User Agreement for Special Collections before accessing audiovisual material in this collection."]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Manuscripts and Archives Yale University Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Manuscripts and Archives Yale University Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/013/original/yale-blue.png?1678220072","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/072/924/small/open-uri20200228-764-19skefe_1582903497.jpg?1582885497","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - open-uri20200228-764-19skefe.mov"]},"duration":1932.73333,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/072/924/small/open-uri20200228-764-19skefe_1582903497.jpg?1582885497","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-yalemssa.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/072/924/original/open-uri20200228-764-19skefe.mov?1582885497","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":1932.73333,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["ms_1981_s07_b0909_transcript.txt [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\n\u003e\u003e [SOUND]\n[SOUND]\n[SOUND]\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=0.0,36.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\n[MUSIC]\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=36.0,39.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nAmerican Interest is made possible by grants from IBM and Exxon. Additional funding is provided by The Starr Foundation, Avis Rent A Car System, The Landegger Program in International Business Diplomacy, and Pfizer, Inc. On this special edition of American Interests, an interview with Dr. Henry Kissinger.\n\u003e\u003e I will even grant the Soviets what some commentators allege, that they have a feeling of insecurity.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=39.0,69.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nThe problem is not that they feel insecure but what does it take to reassure them, and if the only way they can be reassured is by the total impotence of everybody else, the practical consequence of a policy based on insecurity is to produce insecurity for everybody else. From Washington this is American interests.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=69.0,90.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\n[MUSIC]\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=90.0,113.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nWelcome to this special edition of American Interest, a conversation with Doctor Henry Kissinger. Dr Kissinger served for five years as National Security Advisor to the President and for three years as Secretary of State. He serves now, among other capacities, as a commentator and advisor on foreign policy and as Distinguished University Professor of Diplomacy at Georgetown.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=113.0,136.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDr. Kissinger, you have described the Soviet Union as the greatest threat to world peace and have identified that they prosecute that threat through an assault on the global equilibrium. What are the major manifestations of that assault?\n\u003e\u003e Well, the major manifestations of that assault are, first of all, a constant military build up, which has been going on now since 1962 at an increase of three or four percent a year.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=136.0,168.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nAnd you compound interest at the rate of three and four percent a year and you come up with some rather staggering figures. And even if they have no specific intention of doing anything with these weapons, the mere accumulation of them will create temptations that may not exist when they start.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=168.0,184.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nSecondly, they support every, or practically every, guerrilla movement, terrorist group, around the world. For example, they're shipping 85,000 tons of military supplies to Cuba, 15,000 tons of military supplies a year to Nicaragua, compared to 3,000 tons at the United States ships into all of central America. Now this must have the objective, the tendency, of destabilizing many areas.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=184.0,218.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nThey encouraged Vietnamese occupation of Cambodia. They have established bases now all over the world. Now I'm not saying they have a specific deadline, like Hitler did for aggression. I'm saying that they, by creating all these crisis, like selling advanced equipment to Syria, and by stiffening the bag of every radical group they are creating a level of tension in the world which could get out of hand even for them.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=218.0,249.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\n\n\u003e\u003e But what is their motivation in doing so? Do they seek world domination or are these [CROSSTALK]\n\u003e\u003e World domination is a complicated concept. I don't think Hitler had a specific plan that he had to attack by a certain time and that he had to do it himself.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=249.0,268.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nI don't think the Soviets operate this way. I will even grant the Soviets what some commentators allege, that they have a feeling of insecurity. The problem is not that they feel insecure, but what does it take to reassure them? And if the only way they can be reassured is by the total impotence of everybody else, the practical consequence of a policy based on insecurity is to produce insecurity for everybody else.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=268.0,298.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nSo I think they do not feel comfortable if anybody has the capability to resist them and therefore they sort of want to create vacuums around themselves. Take the issue of the missiles in Europe, when they had 50 and we had none they said there was a balance of power.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=298.0,322.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nWhen they had a 150 and we had none, they said there was a balance of power. Then they went to 350 and we have none, they still said there was a balance of power. Now we have put all of 41 missiles in the Europe and they're saying we have to get rid of those as a precondition for a negotiation.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=322.0,338.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nWhat negotiation? There will be nothing left to negotiate about. They want us to get rid of what we have there, which is a seventh of what they have. And it would be easily solved if they were willing to accept equality.\n\u003e\u003e You mentioned the missiles in Europe and you began by referring to the Soviet arms build up as the leading edge of their assault on the world equilibrium.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=338.0,366.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\n[CROSSTALK] While you were National Security Advisor and Secretary of State, you worked diligently on arms control.\n\u003e\u003e Yeah.\n\u003e\u003e And over the years, our dedication to arms control seems to have brought us possibly strategic inferiority. How did this happen?\n\u003e\u003e I totally disagree with this.\n\u003e\u003e How did this happen?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=366.0,382.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nI think this is one of the arguments that some of the extreme conservative groups are making, that it is arms control that has gotten us strategic inferiority. First of all, I don't think we have strategic inferiority. I think what the Soviets have done Is to close a huge gap that was in our favor and they closed that huge gap in our favor because the congress systematically, because of Vietnam and Watergate, cut every military appropriation, long before there was arms control.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=382.0,412.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nIn fact, you could say arms control had a tendency of putting a cap on their programs. And it is hard to define anything that we could have done that we didn't do as a result of arms control. And this is one of those slogans that gets thrown around that is simply not true.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=412.0,430.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\n\n\u003e\u003e It is nevertheless true that we are not as strong, vis-a-vis the Soviet Union now as we were when we entered the era of arms control.\n\u003e\u003e But not because of arms, no. We're not as strong as we were vis-a-vis the Soviet Union because of Vietnam, Watergate, and because of the whole way our domestic debate has disintegrated.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=430.0,450.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nThis is why we are not as strong as we used to be. Arms control would in fact, is in fact the necessary device when both countries have the capacity to destroy each other. And to destroy of humanity it is necessary to get in contact with each other and find a level of stability which gives them security and gives neither side an advantage.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=450.0,474.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nThat objective, I think, is a proper objective and it is not arms control then That creates inequality. Badly negotiated arms control agreements, that's, of course, another matter.\n\u003e\u003e [CROSSTALK]\n\u003e\u003e Why should we not be able to negotiate as well as the Soviets.\n\u003e\u003e This administration, its critics notwithstanding, does appear to want to pursue arms control negotiations with the Soviets but they have walked out of all arms control negotiating talks, why have they done this?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=474.0,503.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nWhy have they walked out? Do they hoped to achieve by stonewalling it what they can't achieve in negotiations?\n\u003e\u003e First of all while I have occasional tactical disagreement with the administration, I think that their policy has been on the whole, extremely prudent and in a direction which I consider desirable.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=503.0,526.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nSome of the rhetoric sometimes was a little bit muscular, maybe more muscular than I would have recommended, but then that's a question of the personality of the top leaders. Why have the Soviets walked out of the arms control negotiations? They are trying to see whether they can get us to make unilateral concessions.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=526.0,551.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nThey have two objectives. One, they want to create a split between us and Europe by giving the impression that it is our actions that are the cause for the breakdown in the arms control negotiations. Second, they want to see whether we will make some unilateral concessions. Third, they probably are confused in their own decision making apparatus exactly what they wanna settle for.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=551.0,575.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nI'm actually quite convinced that within 15 months we are going to be in significant negotiations with the Soviets. How they assess our elections, how they are trying to influence them, how they maneuver them, or try to maneuver them. That is a matter that we should not get too nervous about.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=575.0,595.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRight now they probably are trying to prevent President Reagan from being able to say that his methods worked. Okay, then, we wait until the election. And negotiate after the election. Six months isn't going to change the course of history.\n\u003e\u003e The Atlantic Alliance is one of the bulwarks for the west against the Soviet's assault on the balance of power in the world.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=595.0,616.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nYet, you've been highly critical lately of the Atlantic Alliance. [CROSSTALK] What is the essence of the problem in the alliance.\n\u003e\u003e I'm not critical of the alliance, as such. I'm deeply committed with the Atlantic Alliance. I agree that it is the poor work of defense against Soviet aggression.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=616.0,634.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nMy concern is that the Atlantic Alliance is continuing with institutions and doctrines that were developed 35 years ago in totally new circumstances. The NATO strategy was developed when the United States had a nuclear monopoly, and then for 15 years a huge nuclear superiority. So our present strategy in Europe looks to the early use of nuclear weapons.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=634.0,658.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nOn the other hand, public opinion in Europe is practically pacifist with respect to nuclear weapons. So we have here an ambiguity in the contradiction that is not becoming apparent only because the Soviet Union now has a group of old leaders that are absorbed in their own internal maneuvering.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=658.0,678.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nBut to counter this will continue for ten years would be a mistake. Secondly, while it was appropriate for the United States to bear the principal burden of defense in the early stages of NATO when Europe was flat on its back from Word War II, that is no longer appropriate, now that Europe has substantially recovered.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=678.0,697.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nAnd it is also not in our interest because it makes the European clients who take, who pretend to their own publics that they are dragging us kicking and screaming to the conference table. They are the peace loving people. We are sort of the cowboys that are a threat to the peace, and therefore around the world there are many disagreements.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=697.0,718.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nEven conservative European governments opposed us on Grenada. It is for this reason that I feel there should be a greater assumption of responsibility for the conventional defense by the Europeans. Certain institutional arrangements which will make this explicit and a more modernized strategic doctrine. But I'm deeply committed to the Atlantic Alliance, I'm not against it.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=718.0,748.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\n\n\u003e\u003e But don't your recommendations for structural reform in NATO and for the Europeans taking more responsibility for their own destiny assume that in fact there is a Europe. We know there's a United States, but is there a Europe?\n\u003e\u003e No and if there's no Europe then we will have, if they cannot do it then we have to look at what the situation will be.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=748.0,769.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nThe point in my article was this, I would be delighted. We have now 500,000 Americans in Europe. Five and a half divisions plus their dependents. If the Europeans are making a serious effort to get those 500,000 a military meaning then we should keep them there, and that is by far my preferred solution.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=769.0,790.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nIf on the other hand the Europeans either because they cannot form a Europe or because they do not want to make the sacrifice, commit themselves to defense which will be nuclear from the very beginning and then whether we have 500,000 hostages there or 250,000 hostages, if the troops are primarily a tricking mechanism for the nuclear forces, then I think they would better employed as a strategic reserve for conflicts in the Persian Gulf or elsewhere.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=790.0,817.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\n\n\u003e\u003e How do you respond to the criticism that that suggestion that we might reduce our troop levels in Europe actually encourages European neutralism and accommodation, the outcome that we wish to avoid?\n\u003e\u003e First of all, we've seen plenty European neutralization with our troops there. Secondly I have made it absolutely clear in my article that I would far prefer to keep our troops there, that it is against every instinct I have.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=817.0,843.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nI haven't been brought up on the classical NATO doctrine to withdraw troops, but if the Europeans are not willing to make the defense that they need to make, it is only, it's the Europeans who have the choice about keeping the troops there or not keeping them there. They have the choice of whether they are de facto neutralists or not.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=843.0,864.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\n\n\u003e\u003e You mentioned that we were criticized for our invasion of Grenada even by conservative governments in Europe. And I think particularly of the criticism emanating from Great Britain, a country with which we've had a special relationship, and a leader with whom President Reagan has a special identification. What explains [CROSSTALK] them falling out between Great Britain and the United States?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=864.0,884.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nWe helped them in the Falkland Islands War, they criticized us on the Grenada invasion. Have they concluded that the games, the alliance Do not outweigh the risks and costs?\n\u003e\u003e There's no doubt that we made certain mistakes. Grenada is technically part of the British Commonwealth. And we did not inform them to put it most kindly, until a few hours before and some of the British leaders actually believe we misled them.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=884.0,911.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nI do not have independent knowledge of that, but that is their That is their perception. And I think, however, there's also another factor that I believe that the British government is trying to appeal to the semi neutralist element in the British population by showing that on this issue.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=911.0,934.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nThey're standing up to us. I can understand that Mrs. Thatcher, whom I admire enormously, that Mrs. Thatcher's first reaction was one of disappointment. But she has now kept it up for four months, long after we've even withdrawn our troops. And in the light of what we've done on the Falklands and on our previous close association, I must say I'm very disappointed.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=934.0,959.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDr. Kissinger you have written that Europe must be the pivot of our foreign policy but increasingly our attention is riveted to the Middle East. With respect to the Iran-Iraq War there, how would you define our interest in that war and what policy do you think would be best designed to protect those interests?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=959.0,980.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\n\n\u003e\u003e Well of course the Middle East attracted our attention in part that it's so crucial for Europe that if the access to Middle Eastern oil supplies is cut off it will be bad for us, will be disastrous for Europe. And then a collapse of Europe would be very unfortunate for us.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=980.0,999.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nNow with respect to Iran and Iraq. When the war broke out, I rather tactlessly at a press conference in response to questions that my only regret is that only one of these countries can lose the war. And it is not in our interest, to put it brutally that either of these countries emerges a dominant country in the area, or achieve a clear cut victory.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=999.0,1026.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nBecause both of them are really aggressive, radical regimes. One is radical secular Iraq, the other is radical religious, namely Iran. So, our interest is that both countries emerge from the war intact, and that neither country achieve a decisive victory. Now, of course, the country most likely to achieve a decisive victory, the only country likely to achieve a decisive victory now is Iran.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=1026.0,1057.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nSo, it is, I suppose, in our interest to tilt marginally towards Iraq or, at any rate, not get in the way of those countries that are willing to help Iran. But, in either event, a decisive reprieve for one or the other would be very bad for us.\n\u003e\u003e Doctor Kissinger in June of 1982, almost two years ago, you wrote that the Syrian and Israeli invasions of Lebanon created an extraordinary opportunity, quote, unquote, for American diplomacy in the Middle East.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=1057.0,1093.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nHow have we managed to fumble this opportunity so badly?\n\u003e\u003e It was, the Syrians were already there. It was the Israeli invasion and the sequence of events that followed. Complicated number of reasons. I think we took our eye off the main objective. The main objective the result of this really invasion was to humiliate the radicals or to demonstrate that the road to a settlement lead through Washington to take the PLO out of action for a while.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=1093.0,1127.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nAnd to make clear that the Soviets could not help their friends. That gave us an opportunity to make some progress to its peace the area which brought us to its peace can be made, seems to me to be the West Bank, and not Lebanon. Lebanon has this historic rivalry between the various groups.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=1127.0,1145.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nI think we made a mistake to let ourselves get lured into making the pivot of our policy in the Middle East, trying to get a government into Beirut that could homogeneously rule the whole population of Lebanon to try to creat an army in an country in which there is 16 armed functions that would be able to impose it's will on all of them, when it's soldiers were drawn from the 16, faction.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=1145.0,1173.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nSo then I believe that I was not in favor of putting American troops into Beirut. But I was even less in favor of pulling them out, because when the United States has committed itself to be driven out by a group of Jews and Shiite militia, semi-terrorist groups, is a humiliating setback which will effect the calculations of countries like Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and much more complicated problems than the Lebanon one.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=1173.0,1207.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\n\n\u003e\u003e Well one of the results of us being driven out is surely to increase the Soviet influence in the region. Does this mean any future comprehensive diplomacy address to the middle east is going to have to take Soviet interest more centrally into account.\n\u003e\u003e I'm not so sure that Middle East, it's an area where a loss for us is inevitably a gain for the Soviet Union.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=1207.0,1229.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nIt has given the Soviet Union some marginal gains in Syria. But what it has done, it has strengthened the self-confidence of the indigenous radicals like the Syrians. And it is weakened our credibility, vis-a-vis countries like Saudi Arabia, and Jordan, and Egypt, which has now announced that it wants to have normal relations with the Soviet Union again.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=1229.0,1256.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nAnd it has weakened our credibility at the precise moment when as a result of the probably evolution of the Iran-Iraq War The Gulf states, the Persian Gulf states are gonna come under additional pressure. And, therefore, their self-confidence or their confidence in us is of great consequence.\n\u003e\u003e What kind of initiative from the United States might restore our credibility and effect in the region?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=1256.0,1281.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\n\n\u003e\u003e Well, I think we now watch the appalling political debate that is going on in this country right now.\n\u003e\u003e Over the question of the location of our embassy in Jerusalem.\n\u003e\u003e Of the location of our embassy, of how we should defend Central America. And I think that the best thing they can do now is to let the situation become clearer and to undertake an initiative on a bipartisan basis after our election because the one thing we cannot afford is to fail again.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=1281.0,1318.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\n\n\u003e\u003e Dr. Kissinger, you mentioned Central America. And this takes us right back home, so to speak. In the Kissinger Commission report on Central Americas the region is described as being part of the Soviet geostrategic trust. Is that an assertion or is that demonstrable in some way?\n\u003e\u003e Well, first of all, people ought to remember that this was a commission of six Democrats and six Republicans.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=1318.0,1347.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nThat the Democrats included such well-known admirers of President Reagan as the head of the head of health CIO Layne Kirkman, and the former Chairman of the Democratic National Committee Robert Strauss. And our conclusions were unanimous. And I think this has not received adequate attention. Nor do we say it is only part of the Soviet-Cuban geostrategic thrust.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=1347.0,1375.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nWe are saying that there are indigenous conditions that produce the crisis. That those indigenous conditions have to be improved and, therefore, we have recommended a five-year program of economic recovery. But we are saying that once the guerilla movements get going, they were organized, disciplined, and trained and equipped by the Chinese, by the Cubans.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=1375.0,1400.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nAnd in this sense, have become part of the Soviet strategic offensive. Designed to absorb as many of our energies as possible in the Western hemisphere, and therefore, weaken our defense of allies in both Europe and Asia.\n\u003e\u003e To what extent is Nicaragua locked in, irretrievably, to that geostrategic offensive?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=1400.0,1423.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nOr would it be possible for us to Work out a modus vivendi with the Sandinista regime?\n\u003e\u003e That's a question that only the future can answer, but we can say the following. The previous administration gave $120 million of economic assistance to Nicaragua. We offered military assistance. We offered the Peace Corps Venezuela offered military training and civil assistance.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=1423.0,1449.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nAll of it was rejected except the 120 million, which they took and used for their own ends. They moved deliberately in to the Cuban camp and there are over 8,000 Cuban advisors and over 1,000 other advisors. Our commission recommended that the armies in Central America, Nicaragua as well as its opponent, be reduced essentially to 1979 levels.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=1449.0,1475.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nThat the input of foreign arms be limited, ours to agreed low levels. And that all foreign advisors, Cuban as well as ours be removed. If the Nicaraguans accept all of this, then your question has answered itself. But if the Nicaraguans insist that they continue to import 15,000 tons of military equipment a year, and keep 8,000 Cubans, and over a 1,000 Bulgarians, East German, Soviets and Libyans.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=1475.0,1508.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nThen that's its own answer.\n\u003e\u003e Dr. Kissinger, you have written that in containing the Soviet Union, we need to have an arms build up, accompanied by a positive diplomatic program. What would be some salient elements of a positive diplomatic program for this country?\n\u003e\u003e Well, they're the familiar elements of arms control, and I have always been an advocate of arms control.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=1508.0,1539.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nSecondly, it is imperative that the Soviet Union and we, come to an understanding about the permissible message and objectives in Third World areas. Otherwise, we will be fighting surrogate conflicts all over the world, that are in a way engineered or at any way [INAUDIBLE] that made possible by the Soviet Union.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=1539.0,1562.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nThird, we need a program of cooperation with at least the cooperative Third World countries to demonstrate that free societies, market-oriented societies can improve the well-being of their population. I think that that issue is one that requires urgent attention, and should not be left in the hands of bankers.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=1562.0,1587.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\n\n\u003e\u003e [LAUGH] Would a positive diplomatic program include extending an opportunity for rapprochement with Cuba, much as you moved toward the opening of China in 1971, 72?\n\u003e\u003e Yes but we have to think of rapprochement in complete terms, the communists are geniuses in asking for a whole set of unilateral concessions, as a preliminary to negotiations.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=1587.0,1613.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nThe Vietnamese did it to us by saying there had to be a bombing halt first, and then there'd be negotiations. Now the Cubans are saying, we ought to lift all economic restrictions and then something unspecified, could, will happen. If the Cubans stay in their own country. If they don't have troops in Angola, Ethiopia, Nicaragua.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=1613.0,1636.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nIf they do not have this huge military build-up from the Soviet Union. We have no reason to quarrel with them, we could work out. They could have whatever system they prefered with their own country And I think some coexistence would be possible. But for them to insist that they can have Soviet reconnaissance flights, 25,000 Soviets, Soviet naval bases, Soviet electronic surveillance of the United States from Cuba, plus their surrogates all over the world.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=1636.0,1665.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nAnd then say they want to coexist with us, is a contradiction in terms. If they're willing to give up those activities, we can certainly open up to them.\n\u003e\u003e Thank you Doctor Kissinger. Until next week for American Interests. I'm Peter Crow.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=1665.0,1681.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\n[MUSIC]\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=1681.0,1706.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nFor a transcript, send $2 to Ace-Federal Reporters, 444 North Capitol Street, Suite 402, Washington, DC 20001. This program was produced by Jefferson Communications. Which is solely responsible for its content.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=1706.0,1724.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\n[MUSIC]\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=1724.0,1725.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nAmerican Interest is made possible by grants from IBM and Exxon. Additional funding is provided by The Starr Foundation, Avis Rent A Car System, the Landegger Program in International Business Diplomacy, and Pfizer Inc.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=1725.0,1740.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7762/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\n[MUSIC]\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=1740.0,1932.73333"}]},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7763","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["ms_1981_s07_b0909_caption.vtt [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7763/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"00:00:00.000 --\u003e 00:00:09.471\n[SOUND]\n\n00:00:09.471 --\u003e 00:00:18.943\n[SOUND]\n\n00:00:27.449 --\u003e 00:00:32.086\n[SOUND]\n\n00:00:36.864 --\u003e 00:00:39.492\n[MUSIC]\n\n00:00:39.492 --\u003e 00:00:45.610\nAmerican Interest is made possible\nby grants from IBM and Exxon.\n\n00:00:45.610 --\u003e 00:00:50.560\nAdditional funding is provided by The\nStarr Foundation, Avis Rent A Car System,\n\n00:00:50.560 --\u003e 00:00:55.160\nThe Landegger Program in International\nBusiness Diplomacy, and Pfizer, Inc.\n\n00:00:56.180 --\u003e 00:01:00.393\nOn this special edition of\nAmerican Interests, an interview with Dr.\n\n00:01:00.393 --\u003e 00:01:02.080\nHenry Kissinger.\n\n00:01:02.080 --\u003e 00:01:06.500\n\u003e\u003e I will even grant the Soviets\nwhat some commentators allege,\n\n00:01:06.500 --\u003e 00:01:08.140\nthat they have a feeling of insecurity.\n\n00:01:09.190 --\u003e 00:01:13.400\nThe problem is not that they feel insecure\nbut what does it take to reassure them,\n\n00:01:14.490 --\u003e 00:01:17.950\nand if the only way they can be\nreassured is by the total impotence of\n\n00:01:17.950 --\u003e 00:01:22.680\neverybody else,\nthe practical consequence of a policy\n\n00:01:22.680 --\u003e 00:01:27.630\nbased on insecurity is to produce\ninsecurity for everybody else.\n\n00:01:27.630 --\u003e 00:01:30.753\nFrom Washington this\nis American interests.\n\n00:01:30.753 --\u003e 00:01:40.753\n[MUSIC]\n\n00:01:53.360 --\u003e 00:01:55.876\nWelcome to this special\nedition of American Interest,\n\n00:01:55.876 --\u003e 00:01:57.969\na conversation with\nDoctor Henry Kissinger.\n\n00:01:57.969 --\u003e 00:02:02.900\nDr Kissinger served for five years as\nNational Security Advisor to the President\n\n00:02:02.900 --\u003e 00:02:06.230\nand for three years as Secretary of State.\n\n00:02:06.230 --\u003e 00:02:11.320\nHe serves now, among other capacities,\nas a commentator and advisor on foreign\n\n00:02:11.320 --\u003e 00:02:16.145\npolicy and as Distinguished University\nProfessor of Diplomacy at Georgetown.\n\n00:02:16.145 --\u003e 00:02:20.840\nDr. Kissinger, you have described\nthe Soviet Union as the greatest threat to\n\n00:02:20.840 --\u003e 00:02:26.170\nworld peace and have identified\nthat they prosecute that threat\n\n00:02:26.170 --\u003e 00:02:29.780\nthrough an assault on\nthe global equilibrium.\n\n00:02:29.780 --\u003e 00:02:32.430\nWhat are the major\nmanifestations of that assault?\n\n00:02:34.000 --\u003e 00:02:37.270\n\u003e\u003e Well, the major manifestations\nof that assault are,\n\n00:02:37.270 --\u003e 00:02:42.290\nfirst of all, a constant\nmilitary build up, which has been\n\n00:02:42.290 --\u003e 00:02:47.500\ngoing on now since 1962 at an increase\nof three or four percent a year.\n\n00:02:48.550 --\u003e 00:02:50.640\nAnd you compound interest\nat the rate of three and\n\n00:02:50.640 --\u003e 00:02:55.840\nfour percent a year and you come up\nwith some rather staggering figures.\n\n00:02:55.840 --\u003e 00:02:59.060\nAnd even if they have no specific\nintention of doing anything with these\n\n00:02:59.060 --\u003e 00:03:01.700\nweapons, the mere accumulation of them\n\n00:03:01.700 --\u003e 00:03:04.790\nwill create temptations that\nmay not exist when they start.\n\n00:03:04.790 --\u003e 00:03:09.716\nSecondly, they support every,\nor practically every,\n\n00:03:09.716 --\u003e 00:03:15.050\nguerrilla movement,\nterrorist group, around the world.\n\n00:03:15.050 --\u003e 00:03:20.111\nFor example, they're shipping 85,000\ntons of military supplies to Cuba,\n\n00:03:20.111 --\u003e 00:03:23.870\n15,000 tons of military\nsupplies a year to Nicaragua,\n\n00:03:23.870 --\u003e 00:03:29.960\ncompared to 3,000 tons at the United\nStates ships into all of central America.\n\n00:03:29.960 --\u003e 00:03:34.430\nNow this must have the objective,\n\n00:03:34.430 --\u003e 00:03:38.580\nthe tendency, of destabilizing many areas.\n\n00:03:38.580 --\u003e 00:03:42.690\nThey encouraged Vietnamese\noccupation of Cambodia.\n\n00:03:42.690 --\u003e 00:03:45.920\nThey have established bases\nnow all over the world.\n\n00:03:45.920 --\u003e 00:03:51.440\nNow I'm not saying they have a specific\ndeadline, like Hitler did for aggression.\n\n00:03:51.440 --\u003e 00:03:56.230\nI'm saying that they,\nby creating all these crisis,\n\n00:03:56.230 --\u003e 00:04:00.270\nlike selling advanced equipment to Syria,\nand\n\n00:04:00.270 --\u003e 00:04:04.570\nby stiffening the bag of every\nradical group they are creating\n\n00:04:04.570 --\u003e 00:04:09.290\na level of tension in the world which\ncould get out of hand even for them.\n\n00:04:09.290 --\u003e 00:04:11.510\n\u003e\u003e But\nwhat is their motivation in doing so?\n\n00:04:11.510 --\u003e 00:04:14.460\nDo they seek world domination or\nare these [CROSSTALK]\n\n00:04:14.460 --\u003e 00:04:17.596\n\u003e\u003e World domination is\n\n00:04:17.596 --\u003e 00:04:21.480\na complicated concept.\n\n00:04:21.480 --\u003e 00:04:24.110\nI don't think Hitler had a specific\n\n00:04:24.110 --\u003e 00:04:28.800\nplan that he had to attack by a certain\ntime and that he had to do it himself.\n\n00:04:28.800 --\u003e 00:04:31.870\nI don't think the Soviets\noperate this way.\n\n00:04:31.870 --\u003e 00:04:36.310\nI will even grant the Soviets\nwhat some commentators allege,\n\n00:04:36.310 --\u003e 00:04:37.960\nthat they have a feeling of insecurity.\n\n00:04:38.990 --\u003e 00:04:41.550\nThe problem is not that\nthey feel insecure,\n\n00:04:41.550 --\u003e 00:04:43.250\nbut what does it take to reassure them?\n\n00:04:44.290 --\u003e 00:04:48.290\nAnd if the only way they can be reassured\nis by the total impotence of everybody\n\n00:04:48.290 --\u003e 00:04:52.490\nelse, the practical\nconsequence of a policy\n\n00:04:52.490 --\u003e 00:04:56.710\nbased on insecurity is to produce\ninsecurity for everybody else.\n\n00:04:58.070 --\u003e 00:05:03.067\nSo I think they do not feel\ncomfortable if anybody has\n\n00:05:03.067 --\u003e 00:05:07.725\nthe capability to resist them and\ntherefore they\n\n00:05:07.725 --\u003e 00:05:12.790\nsort of want to create\nvacuums around themselves.\n\n00:05:12.790 --\u003e 00:05:14.920\nTake the issue of the missiles in Europe,\n\n00:05:16.870 --\u003e 00:05:22.140\nwhen they had 50 and we had none they\nsaid there was a balance of power.\n\n00:05:22.140 --\u003e 00:05:25.990\nWhen they had a 150 and we had none,\nthey said there was a balance of power.\n\n00:05:25.990 --\u003e 00:05:27.410\nThen they went to 350 and\n\n00:05:27.410 --\u003e 00:05:30.880\nwe have none, they still said\nthere was a balance of power.\n\n00:05:30.880 --\u003e 00:05:33.422\nNow we have put all of 41\nmissiles in the Europe and\n\n00:05:33.422 --\u003e 00:05:38.820\nthey're saying we have to get rid of those\nas a precondition for a negotiation.\n\n00:05:38.820 --\u003e 00:05:39.630\nWhat negotiation?\n\n00:05:39.630 --\u003e 00:05:41.480\nThere will be nothing\nleft to negotiate about.\n\n00:05:41.480 --\u003e 00:05:45.040\nThey want us to get rid\nof what we have there,\n\n00:05:45.040 --\u003e 00:05:49.720\nwhich is a seventh of what they have.\n\n00:05:50.970 --\u003e 00:05:55.349\nAnd it would be easily solved if they\nwere willing to accept equality.\n\n00:05:55.349 --\u003e 00:06:00.883\n\u003e\u003e You mentioned the missiles in Europe\nand you began by referring to the Soviet\n\n00:06:00.883 --\u003e 00:06:06.455\narms build up as the leading edge of\ntheir assault on the world equilibrium.\n\n00:06:06.455 --\u003e 00:06:10.399\n[CROSSTALK] While you were National\nSecurity Advisor and Secretary of State,\n\n00:06:10.399 --\u003e 00:06:12.471\nyou worked diligently on arms control.\n\n00:06:12.471 --\u003e 00:06:15.211\n\u003e\u003e Yeah.\n\u003e\u003e And over the years, our dedication to\n\n00:06:15.211 --\u003e 00:06:19.742\narms control seems to have brought\nus possibly strategic inferiority.\n\n00:06:19.742 --\u003e 00:06:20.400\nHow did this happen?\n\n00:06:20.400 --\u003e 00:06:21.848\n\u003e\u003e I totally disagree with this.\n\n00:06:21.848 --\u003e 00:06:22.792\n\u003e\u003e How did this happen?\n\n00:06:22.792 --\u003e 00:06:28.404\nI think this is one of the arguments\nthat some of the extreme conservative\n\n00:06:28.404 --\u003e 00:06:35.130\ngroups are making, that it is arms control\nthat has gotten us strategic inferiority.\n\n00:06:35.130 --\u003e 00:06:38.150\nFirst of all, I don't think we\nhave strategic inferiority.\n\n00:06:38.150 --\u003e 00:06:42.710\nI think what the Soviets have done Is to\nclose a huge gap that was in our favor and\n\n00:06:42.710 --\u003e 00:06:46.120\nthey closed that huge gap in our favor\nbecause the congress systematically,\n\n00:06:46.120 --\u003e 00:06:50.490\nbecause of Vietnam and Watergate,\ncut every military appropriation,\n\n00:06:50.490 --\u003e 00:06:52.560\nlong before there was arms control.\n\n00:06:52.560 --\u003e 00:06:56.990\nIn fact, you could say arms control had\na tendency of putting a cap on their\n\n00:06:56.990 --\u003e 00:06:58.570\nprograms.\n\n00:06:58.570 --\u003e 00:07:02.140\nAnd it is hard to define\nanything that we could have done\n\n00:07:02.140 --\u003e 00:07:05.410\nthat we didn't do as\na result of arms control.\n\n00:07:05.410 --\u003e 00:07:10.480\nAnd this is one of those slogans that gets\nthrown around that is simply not true.\n\n00:07:10.480 --\u003e 00:07:14.195\n\u003e\u003e It is nevertheless true\nthat we are not as strong,\n\n00:07:14.195 --\u003e 00:07:18.720\nvis-a-vis the Soviet Union now as we were\nwhen we entered the era of arms control.\n\n00:07:18.720 --\u003e 00:07:20.268\n\u003e\u003e But not because of arms, no.\n\n00:07:20.268 --\u003e 00:07:24.807\nWe're not as strong as we were vis-a-vis\nthe Soviet Union because of Vietnam,\n\n00:07:24.807 --\u003e 00:07:30.100\nWatergate, and because of the whole way\nour domestic debate has disintegrated.\n\n00:07:30.100 --\u003e 00:07:32.540\nThis is why we are not as\nstrong as we used to be.\n\n00:07:32.540 --\u003e 00:07:37.470\nArms control would in fact,\nis in fact the necessary device when\n\n00:07:37.470 --\u003e 00:07:39.912\nboth countries have the capacity\nto destroy each other.\n\n00:07:39.912 --\u003e 00:07:44.490\nAnd to destroy of humanity it is necessary\nto get in contact with each other\n\n00:07:45.760 --\u003e 00:07:50.860\nand find a level of stability\nwhich gives them security\n\n00:07:52.720 --\u003e 00:07:54.510\nand gives neither side an advantage.\n\n00:07:54.510 --\u003e 00:07:57.470\nThat objective, I think,\nis a proper objective and\n\n00:07:57.470 --\u003e 00:08:03.395\nit is not arms control then\nThat creates inequality.\n\n00:08:03.395 --\u003e 00:08:07.096\nBadly negotiated arms control agreements,\nthat's, of course, another matter.\n\n00:08:07.096 --\u003e 00:08:09.489\n\u003e\u003e [CROSSTALK]\n\u003e\u003e Why should we not be able to negotiate\n\n00:08:09.489 --\u003e 00:08:11.130\nas well as the Soviets.\n\n00:08:11.130 --\u003e 00:08:15.050\n\u003e\u003e This administration, its critics\nnotwithstanding, does appear to want\n\n00:08:15.050 --\u003e 00:08:18.540\nto pursue arms control negotiations\nwith the Soviets but they have\n\n00:08:18.540 --\u003e 00:08:23.300\nwalked out of all arms control negotiating\ntalks, why have they done this?\n\n00:08:23.300 --\u003e 00:08:24.370\nWhy have they walked out?\n\n00:08:24.370 --\u003e 00:08:27.570\nDo they hoped to achieve by stonewalling\n\n00:08:27.570 --\u003e 00:08:30.433\nit what they can't\nachieve in negotiations?\n\n00:08:30.433 --\u003e 00:08:35.080\n\u003e\u003e First of all while I have\noccasional tactical disagreement with\n\n00:08:35.080 --\u003e 00:08:40.700\nthe administration, I think that\ntheir policy has been on the whole,\n\n00:08:40.700 --\u003e 00:08:46.290\nextremely prudent and\nin a direction which I consider desirable.\n\n00:08:46.290 --\u003e 00:08:50.480\nSome of the rhetoric sometimes\nwas a little bit muscular,\n\n00:08:50.480 --\u003e 00:08:53.230\nmaybe more muscular than I\nwould have recommended, but\n\n00:08:53.230 --\u003e 00:08:58.589\nthen that's a question of\nthe personality of the top leaders.\n\n00:08:59.620 --\u003e 00:09:02.610\nWhy have the Soviets walked out\nof the arms control negotiations?\n\n00:09:02.610 --\u003e 00:09:11.150\nThey are trying to see whether they can\nget us to make unilateral concessions.\n\n00:09:11.150 --\u003e 00:09:13.360\nThey have two objectives.\n\n00:09:13.360 --\u003e 00:09:16.050\nOne, they want to create\na split between us and\n\n00:09:16.050 --\u003e 00:09:19.640\nEurope by giving the impression that it\nis our actions that are the cause for\n\n00:09:19.640 --\u003e 00:09:22.560\nthe breakdown in the arms\ncontrol negotiations.\n\n00:09:22.560 --\u003e 00:09:28.330\nSecond, they want to see whether we\nwill make some unilateral concessions.\n\n00:09:28.330 --\u003e 00:09:31.310\nThird, they probably are confused\n\n00:09:31.310 --\u003e 00:09:35.882\nin their own decision making apparatus\nexactly what they wanna settle for.\n\n00:09:35.882 --\u003e 00:09:41.820\nI'm actually quite convinced that\n\n00:09:41.820 --\u003e 00:09:45.980\nwithin 15 months we are going to be in\nsignificant negotiations with the Soviets.\n\n00:09:45.980 --\u003e 00:09:49.100\nHow they assess our elections,\nhow they are trying to influence them,\n\n00:09:49.100 --\u003e 00:09:52.220\nhow they maneuver them,\nor try to maneuver them.\n\n00:09:52.220 --\u003e 00:09:55.820\nThat is a matter that we should\nnot get too nervous about.\n\n00:09:55.820 --\u003e 00:09:59.190\nRight now they probably are trying to\nprevent President Reagan from being\n\n00:09:59.190 --\u003e 00:10:00.970\nable to say that his methods worked.\n\n00:10:02.000 --\u003e 00:10:04.240\nOkay, then, we wait until the election.\n\n00:10:04.240 --\u003e 00:10:05.970\nAnd negotiate after the election.\n\n00:10:05.970 --\u003e 00:10:09.070\nSix months isn't going to\nchange the course of history.\n\n00:10:09.070 --\u003e 00:10:12.030\n\u003e\u003e The Atlantic Alliance\nis one of the bulwarks for\n\n00:10:12.030 --\u003e 00:10:16.880\nthe west against the Soviet's assault\non the balance of power in the world.\n\n00:10:16.880 --\u003e 00:10:20.345\nYet, you've been highly critical\nlately of the Atlantic Alliance.\n\n00:10:20.345 --\u003e 00:10:24.809\n[CROSSTALK] What is the essence\nof the problem in the alliance.\n\n00:10:24.809 --\u003e 00:10:26.820\n\u003e\u003e I'm not critical of the alliance,\nas such.\n\n00:10:26.820 --\u003e 00:10:29.110\nI'm deeply committed with\nthe Atlantic Alliance.\n\n00:10:29.110 --\u003e 00:10:34.710\nI agree that it is the poor work of\ndefense against Soviet aggression.\n\n00:10:34.710 --\u003e 00:10:38.720\nMy concern is that the Atlantic Alliance\nis continuing with institutions and\n\n00:10:38.720 --\u003e 00:10:44.030\ndoctrines that were developed 35 years\nago in totally new circumstances.\n\n00:10:44.030 --\u003e 00:10:49.080\nThe NATO strategy was developed\nwhen the United States\n\n00:10:49.080 --\u003e 00:10:54.280\nhad a nuclear monopoly, and then for\n15 years a huge nuclear superiority.\n\n00:10:54.280 --\u003e 00:10:58.900\nSo our present strategy in Europe looks\nto the early use of nuclear weapons.\n\n00:10:58.900 --\u003e 00:10:59.480\nOn the other hand,\n\n00:10:59.480 --\u003e 00:11:05.360\npublic opinion in Europe is practically\npacifist with respect to nuclear weapons.\n\n00:11:05.360 --\u003e 00:11:10.120\nSo we have here an ambiguity\nin the contradiction\n\n00:11:10.120 --\u003e 00:11:14.520\nthat is not becoming apparent only because\nthe Soviet Union now has a group of old\n\n00:11:14.520 --\u003e 00:11:18.648\nleaders that are absorbed in\ntheir own internal maneuvering.\n\n00:11:18.648 --\u003e 00:11:22.840\nBut to counter this will continue for\nten years would be a mistake.\n\n00:11:22.840 --\u003e 00:11:25.580\nSecondly, while it was appropriate for\n\n00:11:25.580 --\u003e 00:11:29.390\nthe United States to bear the principal\nburden of defense in the early\n\n00:11:29.390 --\u003e 00:11:33.350\nstages of NATO when Europe was\nflat on its back from Word War II,\n\n00:11:33.350 --\u003e 00:11:37.130\nthat is no longer appropriate, now that\nEurope has substantially recovered.\n\n00:11:37.130 --\u003e 00:11:42.200\nAnd it is also not in our interest\nbecause it makes the European clients\n\n00:11:43.230 --\u003e 00:11:48.560\nwho take, who pretend to their own publics\nthat they are dragging us kicking and\n\n00:11:48.560 --\u003e 00:11:50.700\nscreaming to the conference table.\n\n00:11:50.700 --\u003e 00:11:52.110\nThey are the peace loving people.\n\n00:11:52.110 --\u003e 00:11:55.790\nWe are sort of the cowboys that\nare a threat to the peace, and\n\n00:11:55.790 --\u003e 00:11:58.910\ntherefore around the world\nthere are many disagreements.\n\n00:11:58.910 --\u003e 00:12:02.830\nEven conservative European\ngovernments opposed us on Grenada.\n\n00:12:02.830 --\u003e 00:12:07.470\nIt is for this reason that I\nfeel there should be a greater\n\n00:12:07.470 --\u003e 00:12:12.269\nassumption of responsibility for\nthe conventional defense by the Europeans.\n\n00:12:13.940 --\u003e 00:12:20.130\nCertain institutional arrangements\nwhich will make this explicit\n\n00:12:20.130 --\u003e 00:12:24.880\nand a more modernized strategic doctrine.\n\n00:12:24.880 --\u003e 00:12:28.400\nBut I'm deeply committed to\nthe Atlantic Alliance, I'm not against it.\n\n00:12:28.400 --\u003e 00:12:32.530\n\u003e\u003e But don't your recommendations for\nstructural reform in NATO and for\n\n00:12:32.530 --\u003e 00:12:35.400\nthe Europeans taking\nmore responsibility for\n\n00:12:35.400 --\u003e 00:12:39.620\ntheir own destiny assume that\nin fact there is a Europe.\n\n00:12:39.620 --\u003e 00:12:42.490\nWe know there's a United States,\nbut is there a Europe?\n\n00:12:42.490 --\u003e 00:12:44.950\n\u003e\u003e No and\nif there's no Europe then we will have,\n\n00:12:44.950 --\u003e 00:12:49.510\nif they cannot do it then we have to\nlook at what the situation will be.\n\n00:12:49.510 --\u003e 00:12:55.040\nThe point in my article was this,\nI would be delighted.\n\n00:12:55.040 --\u003e 00:12:57.320\nWe have now 500,000 Americans in Europe.\n\n00:12:57.320 --\u003e 00:13:00.890\nFive and\na half divisions plus their dependents.\n\n00:13:00.890 --\u003e 00:13:05.998\nIf the Europeans are making a serious\neffort to get those 500,000 a military\n\n00:13:05.998 --\u003e 00:13:10.710\nmeaning then we should keep them there,\nand that is by far my preferred solution.\n\n00:13:10.710 --\u003e 00:13:14.572\nIf on the other hand the Europeans either\nbecause they cannot form a Europe or\n\n00:13:14.572 --\u003e 00:13:17.540\nbecause they do not want\nto make the sacrifice,\n\n00:13:17.540 --\u003e 00:13:20.995\ncommit themselves to defense which will\nbe nuclear from the very beginning and\n\n00:13:20.995 --\u003e 00:13:25.072\nthen whether we have\n500,000 hostages there or\n\n00:13:25.072 --\u003e 00:13:30.030\n250,000 hostages, if the troops\nare primarily a tricking mechanism for\n\n00:13:30.030 --\u003e 00:13:34.190\nthe nuclear forces, then I think they\nwould better employed as a strategic\n\n00:13:34.190 --\u003e 00:13:37.607\nreserve for conflicts in\nthe Persian Gulf or elsewhere.\n\n00:13:37.607 --\u003e 00:13:42.010\n\u003e\u003e How do you respond to the criticism\nthat that suggestion that we might reduce\n\n00:13:42.010 --\u003e 00:13:46.790\nour troop levels in Europe actually\nencourages European neutralism and\n\n00:13:46.790 --\u003e 00:13:49.976\naccommodation, the outcome\nthat we wish to avoid?\n\n00:13:49.976 --\u003e 00:13:50.640\n\u003e\u003e First of all,\n\n00:13:50.640 --\u003e 00:13:54.580\nwe've seen plenty European\nneutralization with our troops there.\n\n00:13:54.580 --\u003e 00:13:59.610\nSecondly I have made it absolutely clear\nin my article that I would far prefer\n\n00:13:59.610 --\u003e 00:14:03.840\nto keep our troops there,\nthat it is against every instinct I have.\n\n00:14:03.840 --\u003e 00:14:08.150\nI haven't been brought up on the classical\nNATO doctrine to withdraw troops, but\n\n00:14:09.230 --\u003e 00:14:15.220\nif the Europeans are not willing to\nmake the defense that they need to make,\n\n00:14:15.220 --\u003e 00:14:19.476\nit is only, it's the Europeans who have\nthe choice about keeping the troops there\n\n00:14:19.476 --\u003e 00:14:20.330\nor not keeping them there.\n\n00:14:20.330 --\u003e 00:14:24.340\nThey have the choice of whether they\nare de facto neutralists or not.\n\n00:14:24.340 --\u003e 00:14:26.410\n\u003e\u003e You mentioned that\nwe were criticized for\n\n00:14:26.410 --\u003e 00:14:29.730\nour invasion of Grenada even by\nconservative governments in Europe.\n\n00:14:29.730 --\u003e 00:14:33.440\nAnd I think particularly of the criticism\nemanating from Great Britain,\n\n00:14:33.440 --\u003e 00:14:35.970\na country with which we've had\na special relationship, and\n\n00:14:35.970 --\u003e 00:14:40.620\na leader with whom President Reagan\nhas a special identification.\n\n00:14:40.620 --\u003e 00:14:43.755\nWhat explains [CROSSTALK] them\nfalling out between Great Britain and\n\n00:14:43.755 --\u003e 00:14:44.691\nthe United States?\n\n00:14:44.691 --\u003e 00:14:46.726\nWe helped them in\nthe Falkland Islands War,\n\n00:14:46.726 --\u003e 00:14:49.030\nthey criticized us on\nthe Grenada invasion.\n\n00:14:49.030 --\u003e 00:14:50.990\nHave they concluded that the games,\n\n00:14:50.990 --\u003e 00:14:55.360\nthe alliance Do not outweigh the risks and\ncosts?\n\n00:14:55.360 --\u003e 00:14:57.550\n\u003e\u003e There's no doubt that\nwe made certain mistakes.\n\n00:14:57.550 --\u003e 00:15:00.780\nGrenada is technically part\nof the British Commonwealth.\n\n00:15:02.130 --\u003e 00:15:08.040\nAnd we did not inform them to put it\nmost kindly, until a few hours before\n\n00:15:08.040 --\u003e 00:15:11.950\nand some of the British leaders\nactually believe we misled them.\n\n00:15:11.950 --\u003e 00:15:14.229\nI do not have independent\nknowledge of that, but\n\n00:15:14.229 --\u003e 00:15:16.128\nthat is their That is their perception.\n\n00:15:19.896 --\u003e 00:15:24.841\nAnd I think, however,\nthere's also another factor that I believe\n\n00:15:24.841 --\u003e 00:15:29.960\nthat the British government is trying\nto appeal to the semi neutralist\n\n00:15:29.960 --\u003e 00:15:34.750\nelement in the British population\nby showing that on this issue.\n\n00:15:34.750 --\u003e 00:15:35.859\nThey're standing up to us.\n\n00:15:37.100 --\u003e 00:15:41.538\nI can understand that Mrs.\nThatcher, whom I admire enormously,\n\n00:15:41.538 --\u003e 00:15:46.990\nthat Mrs. Thatcher's first reaction\nwas one of disappointment.\n\n00:15:46.990 --\u003e 00:15:49.540\nBut she has now kept it up for\n\n00:15:49.540 --\u003e 00:15:53.330\nfour months, long after we've\neven withdrawn our troops.\n\n00:15:53.330 --\u003e 00:15:55.460\nAnd in the light of what we've\ndone on the Falklands and\n\n00:15:55.460 --\u003e 00:15:59.575\non our previous close association,\nI must say I'm very disappointed.\n\n00:15:59.575 --\u003e 00:16:03.850\nDr. Kissinger you have written\nthat Europe must be the pivot of\n\n00:16:03.850 --\u003e 00:16:09.040\nour foreign policy but increasingly our\nattention is riveted to the Middle East.\n\n00:16:09.040 --\u003e 00:16:14.320\nWith respect to the Iran-Iraq War there,\nhow would you define our interest in that\n\n00:16:14.320 --\u003e 00:16:18.999\nwar and what policy do you think would be\nbest designed to protect those interests?\n\n00:16:20.300 --\u003e 00:16:24.450\n\u003e\u003e Well of course the Middle East\nattracted our attention in part that it's\n\n00:16:24.450 --\u003e 00:16:28.980\nso crucial for Europe that if the access\nto Middle Eastern oil supplies is cut off\n\n00:16:28.980 --\u003e 00:16:33.090\nit will be bad for us,\nwill be disastrous for Europe.\n\n00:16:34.500 --\u003e 00:16:39.860\nAnd then a collapse of Europe\nwould be very unfortunate for us.\n\n00:16:39.860 --\u003e 00:16:42.410\nNow with respect to Iran and Iraq.\n\n00:16:42.410 --\u003e 00:16:44.700\nWhen the war broke out,\n\n00:16:44.700 --\u003e 00:16:48.840\nI rather tactlessly at a press conference\nin response to questions that my\n\n00:16:48.840 --\u003e 00:16:53.350\nonly regret is that only one of\nthese countries can lose the war.\n\n00:16:53.350 --\u003e 00:16:59.830\nAnd it is not in our interest,\nto put it brutally that either of these\n\n00:16:59.830 --\u003e 00:17:06.510\ncountries emerges a dominant country in\nthe area, or achieve a clear cut victory.\n\n00:17:06.510 --\u003e 00:17:10.550\nBecause both of them are really\naggressive, radical regimes.\n\n00:17:10.550 --\u003e 00:17:15.843\nOne is radical secular Iraq, the other\nis radical religious, namely Iran.\n\n00:17:15.843 --\u003e 00:17:22.870\nSo, our interest is that both\ncountries emerge from the war intact,\n\n00:17:22.870 --\u003e 00:17:28.810\nand that neither country\nachieve a decisive victory.\n\n00:17:28.810 --\u003e 00:17:31.680\nNow, of course, the country most\nlikely to achieve a decisive victory,\n\n00:17:31.680 --\u003e 00:17:36.200\nthe only country likely to achieve\na decisive victory now is Iran.\n\n00:17:37.230 --\u003e 00:17:43.430\nSo, it is, I suppose, in our interest\nto tilt marginally towards Iraq or,\n\n00:17:43.430 --\u003e 00:17:50.280\nat any rate, not get in the way of those\ncountries that are willing to help Iran.\n\n00:17:50.280 --\u003e 00:17:55.170\nBut, in either event,\na decisive reprieve for one or\n\n00:17:55.170 --\u003e 00:17:57.590\nthe other would be very bad for us.\n\n00:17:57.590 --\u003e 00:18:01.670\n\u003e\u003e Doctor Kissinger in June of 1982,\nalmost two years ago,\n\n00:18:01.670 --\u003e 00:18:07.530\nyou wrote that the Syrian and\nIsraeli invasions of Lebanon\n\n00:18:07.530 --\u003e 00:18:11.110\ncreated an extraordinary opportunity,\nquote, unquote, for\n\n00:18:11.110 --\u003e 00:18:13.950\nAmerican diplomacy in the Middle East.\n\n00:18:13.950 --\u003e 00:18:17.480\nHow have we managed to fumble\nthis opportunity so badly?\n\n00:18:19.500 --\u003e 00:18:21.700\n\u003e\u003e It was, the Syrians were already there.\n\n00:18:21.700 --\u003e 00:18:28.060\nIt was the Israeli invasion and\nthe sequence of events that followed.\n\n00:18:29.390 --\u003e 00:18:30.940\nComplicated number of reasons.\n\n00:18:30.940 --\u003e 00:18:33.500\nI think we took our eye\noff the main objective.\n\n00:18:33.500 --\u003e 00:18:38.252\nThe main objective\nthe result of this really\n\n00:18:38.252 --\u003e 00:18:43.370\ninvasion was to humiliate the radicals or\nto demonstrate that the road\n\n00:18:43.370 --\u003e 00:18:47.550\nto a settlement lead through Washington to\ntake the PLO out of action for a while.\n\n00:18:47.550 --\u003e 00:18:52.130\nAnd to make clear that the Soviets\ncould not help their friends.\n\n00:18:52.130 --\u003e 00:18:56.260\nThat gave us an opportunity to\nmake some progress to its peace\n\n00:18:56.260 --\u003e 00:18:59.000\nthe area which brought us\nto its peace can be made,\n\n00:18:59.000 --\u003e 00:19:02.040\nseems to me to be the West Bank,\nand not Lebanon.\n\n00:19:02.040 --\u003e 00:19:05.520\nLebanon has this historic rivalry\nbetween the various groups.\n\n00:19:05.520 --\u003e 00:19:09.979\nI think we made a mistake to let\nourselves get lured into making\n\n00:19:09.979 --\u003e 00:19:14.952\nthe pivot of our policy in the Middle\nEast, trying to get a government\n\n00:19:14.952 --\u003e 00:19:19.758\ninto Beirut that could homogeneously\nrule the whole population of\n\n00:19:19.758 --\u003e 00:19:24.816\nLebanon to try to creat an army in\nan country in which there is 16 armed\n\n00:19:24.816 --\u003e 00:19:29.446\nfunctions that would be able to\nimpose it's will on all of them,\n\n00:19:29.446 --\u003e 00:19:33.631\nwhen it's soldiers were drawn from the 16,\nfaction.\n\n00:19:33.631 --\u003e 00:19:41.680\nSo then I believe that I was not in favor\nof putting American troops into Beirut.\n\n00:19:41.680 --\u003e 00:19:46.130\nBut I was even less in favor of pulling\nthem out, because when the United States\n\n00:19:46.130 --\u003e 00:19:51.570\nhas committed itself to be driven\nout by a group of Jews and\n\n00:19:51.570 --\u003e 00:19:55.870\nShiite militia, semi-terrorist groups,\n\n00:19:57.260 --\u003e 00:20:02.840\nis a humiliating setback which will effect\nthe calculations of countries like Jordan,\n\n00:20:02.840 --\u003e 00:20:07.630\nSaudi Arabia, and much more complicated\nproblems than the Lebanon one.\n\n00:20:07.630 --\u003e 00:20:10.792\n\u003e\u003e Well one of the results of\nus being driven out is surely to\n\n00:20:10.792 --\u003e 00:20:13.880\nincrease the Soviet\ninfluence in the region.\n\n00:20:13.880 --\u003e 00:20:18.860\nDoes this mean any future comprehensive\ndiplomacy address to the middle\n\n00:20:18.860 --\u003e 00:20:22.540\neast is going to have to take Soviet\ninterest more centrally into account.\n\n00:20:22.540 --\u003e 00:20:26.740\n\u003e\u003e I'm not so sure that Middle East,\nit's an area where a loss for\n\n00:20:26.740 --\u003e 00:20:29.460\nus is inevitably a gain for\nthe Soviet Union.\n\n00:20:29.460 --\u003e 00:20:33.800\nIt has given the Soviet Union\nsome marginal gains in Syria.\n\n00:20:34.940 --\u003e 00:20:36.374\nBut what it has done,\n\n00:20:36.374 --\u003e 00:20:42.363\nit has strengthened the self-confidence of\nthe indigenous radicals like the Syrians.\n\n00:20:42.363 --\u003e 00:20:47.786\nAnd it is weakened our credibility,\nvis-a-vis countries like Saudi Arabia,\n\n00:20:47.786 --\u003e 00:20:52.410\nand Jordan, and Egypt, which has\nnow announced that it wants to have\n\n00:20:52.410 --\u003e 00:20:55.620\nnormal relations with\nthe Soviet Union again.\n\n00:20:56.750 --\u003e 00:21:00.840\nAnd it has weakened our credibility at\nthe precise moment when as a result of\n\n00:21:00.840 --\u003e 00:21:05.770\nthe probably evolution of\nthe Iran-Iraq War The Gulf states,\n\n00:21:05.770 --\u003e 00:21:08.400\nthe Persian Gulf states are gonna\ncome under additional pressure.\n\n00:21:09.690 --\u003e 00:21:12.189\nAnd, therefore, their self-confidence or\n\n00:21:12.189 --\u003e 00:21:14.823\ntheir confidence in us\nis of great consequence.\n\n00:21:14.823 --\u003e 00:21:19.570\n\u003e\u003e What kind of initiative from the United\nStates might restore our credibility and\n\n00:21:19.570 --\u003e 00:21:21.500\neffect in the region?\n\n00:21:21.500 --\u003e 00:21:24.810\n\u003e\u003e Well,\nI think we now watch the appalling\n\n00:21:24.810 --\u003e 00:21:27.610\npolitical debate that is going\non in this country right now.\n\n00:21:29.120 --\u003e 00:21:33.046\n\u003e\u003e Over the question of the location\nof our embassy in Jerusalem.\n\n00:21:33.046 --\u003e 00:21:36.790\n\u003e\u003e Of the location of our embassy,\nof how we should defend Central America.\n\n00:21:36.790 --\u003e 00:21:41.692\nAnd I think that the best\nthing they can do now is\n\n00:21:41.692 --\u003e 00:21:45.843\nto let the situation become clearer and\n\n00:21:45.843 --\u003e 00:21:51.001\nto undertake an initiative\non a bipartisan basis\n\n00:21:51.001 --\u003e 00:21:58.965\nafter our election because the one thing\nwe cannot afford is to fail again.\n\n00:21:58.965 --\u003e 00:22:01.810\n\u003e\u003e Dr. Kissinger,\nyou mentioned Central America.\n\n00:22:01.810 --\u003e 00:22:04.675\nAnd this takes us right back home,\nso to speak.\n\n00:22:04.675 --\u003e 00:22:10.310\nIn the Kissinger Commission report\non Central Americas the region\n\n00:22:10.310 --\u003e 00:22:16.370\nis described as being part of\nthe Soviet geostrategic trust.\n\n00:22:16.370 --\u003e 00:22:19.620\nIs that an assertion or\nis that demonstrable in some way?\n\n00:22:19.620 --\u003e 00:22:23.750\n\u003e\u003e Well, first of all,\npeople ought to remember that\n\n00:22:23.750 --\u003e 00:22:27.890\nthis was a commission of six Democrats and\nsix Republicans.\n\n00:22:27.890 --\u003e 00:22:31.988\nThat the Democrats included\nsuch well-known admirers of\n\n00:22:31.988 --\u003e 00:22:37.089\nPresident Reagan as the head of the head\nof health CIO Layne Kirkman, and\n\n00:22:37.089 --\u003e 00:22:42.530\nthe former Chairman of the Democratic\nNational Committee Robert Strauss.\n\n00:22:42.530 --\u003e 00:22:44.169\nAnd our conclusions were unanimous.\n\n00:22:45.240 --\u003e 00:22:48.510\nAnd I think this has not\nreceived adequate attention.\n\n00:22:49.920 --\u003e 00:22:55.040\nNor do we say it is only part of\nthe Soviet-Cuban geostrategic thrust.\n\n00:22:55.040 --\u003e 00:22:58.957\nWe are saying that there are indigenous\nconditions that produce the crisis.\n\n00:22:58.957 --\u003e 00:23:03.349\nThat those indigenous conditions\nhave to be improved and, therefore,\n\n00:23:03.349 --\u003e 00:23:08.080\nwe have recommended a five-year\nprogram of economic recovery.\n\n00:23:08.080 --\u003e 00:23:14.594\nBut we are saying that once the guerilla\nmovements get going, they were organized,\n\n00:23:14.594 --\u003e 00:23:20.208\ndisciplined, and trained and\nequipped by the Chinese, by the Cubans.\n\n00:23:20.208 --\u003e 00:23:26.529\nAnd in this sense, have become part\nof the Soviet strategic offensive.\n\n00:23:27.950 --\u003e 00:23:32.520\nDesigned to absorb as many of our energies\nas possible in the Western hemisphere, and\n\n00:23:32.520 --\u003e 00:23:37.350\ntherefore, weaken our defense of\nallies in both Europe and Asia.\n\n00:23:37.350 --\u003e 00:23:40.930\n\u003e\u003e To what extent is Nicaragua locked in,\nirretrievably,\n\n00:23:40.930 --\u003e 00:23:43.250\nto that geostrategic offensive?\n\n00:23:43.250 --\u003e 00:23:44.710\nOr would it be possible for\n\n00:23:44.710 --\u003e 00:23:49.010\nus to Work out a modus vivendi\nwith the Sandinista regime?\n\n00:23:49.010 --\u003e 00:23:52.940\n\u003e\u003e That's a question that only the future\ncan answer, but we can say the following.\n\n00:23:52.940 --\u003e 00:23:57.770\nThe previous administration\ngave $120 million of\n\n00:23:57.770 --\u003e 00:24:00.210\neconomic assistance to Nicaragua.\n\n00:24:00.210 --\u003e 00:24:02.325\nWe offered military assistance.\n\n00:24:02.325 --\u003e 00:24:07.446\nWe offered the Peace Corps Venezuela\noffered military training and\n\n00:24:07.446 --\u003e 00:24:09.100\ncivil assistance.\n\n00:24:09.100 --\u003e 00:24:12.869\nAll of it was rejected\nexcept the 120 million,\n\n00:24:12.869 --\u003e 00:24:16.200\nwhich they took and\nused for their own ends.\n\n00:24:16.200 --\u003e 00:24:21.135\nThey moved deliberately in to\nthe Cuban camp and there are over\n\n00:24:21.135 --\u003e 00:24:25.520\n8,000 Cuban advisors and\nover 1,000 other advisors.\n\n00:24:25.520 --\u003e 00:24:29.865\nOur commission recommended that\nthe armies in Central America,\n\n00:24:29.865 --\u003e 00:24:35.247\nNicaragua as well as its opponent,\nbe reduced essentially to 1979 levels.\n\n00:24:35.247 --\u003e 00:24:40.860\nThat the input of foreign arms be limited,\nours to agreed low levels.\n\n00:24:40.860 --\u003e 00:24:44.209\nAnd that all foreign advisors,\nCuban as well as ours be removed.\n\n00:24:46.180 --\u003e 00:24:53.880\nIf the Nicaraguans accept all of this,\nthen your question has answered itself.\n\n00:24:53.880 --\u003e 00:24:58.903\nBut if the Nicaraguans insist that\nthey continue to import 15,000\n\n00:24:58.903 --\u003e 00:25:03.677\ntons of military equipment a year,\nand keep 8,000 Cubans, and\n\n00:25:03.677 --\u003e 00:25:08.920\nover a 1,000 Bulgarians,\nEast German, Soviets and Libyans.\n\n00:25:08.920 --\u003e 00:25:10.125\nThen that's its own answer.\n\n00:25:10.125 --\u003e 00:25:16.680\n\u003e\u003e Dr. Kissinger, you have written that\nin containing the Soviet Union, we\n\n00:25:16.680 --\u003e 00:25:22.460\nneed to have an arms build up, accompanied\nby a positive diplomatic program.\n\n00:25:22.460 --\u003e 00:25:28.000\nWhat would be some salient elements\nof a positive diplomatic program for\n\n00:25:28.000 --\u003e 00:25:28.880\nthis country?\n\n00:25:28.880 --\u003e 00:25:33.780\n\u003e\u003e Well, they're the familiar elements of\n\n00:25:35.930 --\u003e 00:25:39.900\narms control, and I have always\nbeen an advocate of arms control.\n\n00:25:39.900 --\u003e 00:25:44.690\nSecondly, it is imperative that the Soviet\nUnion and we, come to an understanding\n\n00:25:44.690 --\u003e 00:25:50.040\nabout the permissible message and\nobjectives in Third World areas.\n\n00:25:50.040 --\u003e 00:25:57.380\nOtherwise, we will be fighting surrogate\nconflicts all over the world, that are in\n\n00:25:57.380 --\u003e 00:26:02.190\na way engineered or at any way [INAUDIBLE]\nthat made possible by the Soviet Union.\n\n00:26:02.190 --\u003e 00:26:08.050\nThird, we need a program of\ncooperation with at least\n\n00:26:09.480 --\u003e 00:26:15.104\nthe cooperative Third World countries\nto demonstrate that free societies,\n\n00:26:15.104 --\u003e 00:26:19.790\nmarket-oriented societies can improve\nthe well-being of their population.\n\n00:26:19.790 --\u003e 00:26:25.460\nI think that that issue is one\nthat requires urgent attention,\n\n00:26:25.460 --\u003e 00:26:27.620\nand should not be left\nin the hands of bankers.\n\n00:26:27.620 --\u003e 00:26:32.320\n\u003e\u003e [LAUGH] Would a positive\ndiplomatic program include\n\n00:26:32.320 --\u003e 00:26:36.080\nextending an opportunity for\nrapprochement with Cuba,\n\n00:26:36.080 --\u003e 00:26:41.100\nmuch as you moved toward\nthe opening of China in 1971, 72?\n\n00:26:41.100 --\u003e 00:26:44.530\n\u003e\u003e Yes but we have to think of\nrapprochement in complete terms,\n\n00:26:44.530 --\u003e 00:26:48.330\nthe communists are geniuses in asking for\n\n00:26:48.330 --\u003e 00:26:53.760\na whole set of unilateral concessions,\nas a preliminary to negotiations.\n\n00:26:53.760 --\u003e 00:26:58.540\nThe Vietnamese did it to us by saying\nthere had to be a bombing halt first, and\n\n00:26:58.540 --\u003e 00:26:59.800\nthen there'd be negotiations.\n\n00:26:59.800 --\u003e 00:27:04.946\nNow the Cubans are saying, we ought\nto lift all economic restrictions and\n\n00:27:04.946 --\u003e 00:27:08.687\nthen something unspecified,\ncould, will happen.\n\n00:27:08.687 --\u003e 00:27:11.800\nIf the Cubans stay in their own country.\n\n00:27:11.800 --\u003e 00:27:16.550\nIf they don't have troops in Angola,\nEthiopia, Nicaragua.\n\n00:27:16.550 --\u003e 00:27:21.280\nIf they do not have this huge military\nbuild-up from the Soviet Union.\n\n00:27:21.280 --\u003e 00:27:23.560\nWe have no reason to quarrel with them,\nwe could work out.\n\n00:27:23.560 --\u003e 00:27:27.510\nThey could have whatever system they\nprefered with their own country And\n\n00:27:27.510 --\u003e 00:27:30.380\nI think some coexistence\nwould be possible.\n\n00:27:30.380 --\u003e 00:27:34.968\nBut for them to insist that they can\nhave Soviet reconnaissance flights,\n\n00:27:34.968 --\u003e 00:27:40.130\n25,000 Soviets, Soviet naval bases,\nSoviet electronic surveillance\n\n00:27:40.130 --\u003e 00:27:45.650\nof the United States from Cuba,\nplus their surrogates all over the world.\n\n00:27:45.650 --\u003e 00:27:50.290\nAnd then say they want to coexist with us,\nis a contradiction in terms.\n\n00:27:50.290 --\u003e 00:27:53.000\nIf they're willing to\ngive up those activities,\n\n00:27:53.000 --\u003e 00:27:54.490\nwe can certainly open up to them.\n\n00:27:55.780 --\u003e 00:27:56.810\n\u003e\u003e Thank you Doctor Kissinger.\n\n00:27:57.970 --\u003e 00:28:00.730\nUntil next week for American Interests.\n\n00:28:00.730 --\u003e 00:28:01.777\nI'm Peter Crow.\n\n00:28:01.777 --\u003e 00:28:11.777\n[MUSIC]\n\n00:28:26.611 --\u003e 00:28:32.037\nFor a transcript,\nsend $2 to Ace-Federal Reporters,\n\n00:28:32.037 --\u003e 00:28:39.251\n444 North Capitol Street,\nSuite 402, Washington, DC 20001.\n\n00:28:39.251 --\u003e 00:28:41.673\nThis program was produced by\nJefferson Communications.\n\n00:28:41.673 --\u003e 00:28:44.650\nWhich is solely responsible for\nits content.\n\n00:28:44.650 --\u003e 00:28:45.508\n[MUSIC]\n\n00:28:45.508 --\u003e 00:28:51.580\nAmerican Interest is made possible\nby grants from IBM and Exxon.\n\n00:28:51.580 --\u003e 00:28:56.343\nAdditional funding is provided by The\nStarr Foundation, Avis Rent A Car System,\n\n00:28:56.343 --\u003e 00:29:00.980\nthe Landegger Program in International\nBusiness Diplomacy, and Pfizer Inc.\n\n00:29:00.980 --\u003e 00:29:10.980\n[MUSIC]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924#t=0.0,1932.73333"}]},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7763","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/56/collection_resources/17471/file/72924/transcript/7763/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/007/763/original/transcript_index_158290350220200228-764-12n2xd5?1582885503","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/007/763/original/transcript_index_158290350220200228-764-12n2xd5?1582885503"}]}]}]}