{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/4746q1t17x/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Phillips, Rolly, 2008 March 28"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/013/original/yale-blue.png?1678220072","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Preferred Citation"]},"value":{"en":["Phillips, Rolly, 2008 March 28. Oral Histories Documenting Yale University Women (RU 1051). Manuscripts and Archives, Yale University Library.\n\n https://archives.yale.edu/repositories/12/resources/2559."]}},{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["https://archives.yale.edu/repositories/12/archival_objects/801914"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["Manuscripts and Archives, Yale University Library."]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["Access to the materials is partially restricted. See Collection Contents for details.\n\nOriginal computer files may not be accessed due to their fragility. Researchers must consult access copies."]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["mssa.ru.1051 (EAD ID)","RU 1051 (Call Number)","ru_1051_2012-a-049_phillips_rolly_audiorecording.mp3 (Digital Object ID)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2008 March 28 (Creation)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["The materials are open for research. (Accessrestrict)","Rolly Phillips was born March 31, 1943, in Brooklyn, New York.  Brought up in Pocatello, Idaho, she is the eldest of six children.  Her mother was the first woman to graduate from the University of Idaho Law School and was a practicing lawyer all her life.  Phillips gained her B.A. from Bryn Mawr College in 1965.  She then spent two years as a Fulbright Scholar at Newnham College, Cambridge, England.  She earned a Ph.D. in classics from Harvard in 1970.   After teaching summer school at the University of Massachusetts, Boston, she was hired by Yale as an Instructor in Classics in the fall of 1970.  At that time there was only one other woman in the department, a lecturer, Anne Parry, wife of then Chair, Adam Milman Parry. From 1971-1977, Rolly Phillips was an Assistant Professor in Classics.  Knowing that she was unlikely to get tenure, she left Yale and taught for almost three years at Barnard College, New York.  She then decided not to continue a career in higher education and obtained a position teaching classics at Fieldston School, New York, where she still teaches. (Bioghist)","Rolly Phillips discusses her upbringing and education, paying tribute in particular to her mother as a role model of the successful professional woman. She recalls her undergraduate years at Bryn Mawr, especially the social challenges she experienced.  She recalls teachers like Richard Lattimore, the classicist and poet.  She describes life as a female graduate student at Harvard and Cambridge Universities and the cultural differences she encountered.  In particular she recalls some of the difficulties faced by female scholars at Harvard.  Dr. Phillips talks about how she was hired by Yale, and the encouragement she received from Eric Havelock, Sterling Professor of Classics.  She touches on the issue of affirmative action, relationships between junior and senior faculty, and between women faculty, and talks at length about the pleasures of teaching Yale undergraduates, both men and women.  She discusses tenure at Yale and why she believed she was unlikely to achieve it.  She briefly recalls her time at Barnard College, and concludes her interview by discussing her reasons for choosing a career of high school teaching.  She describes how her teaching experience at Yale influenced her teaching younger students at Fieldston School. (Scope and Content Note)","https://preservica.library.yale.edu/explorer/explorer.html#prop:4\u0026amp;e6a938d6-5b48-4834-bffd-0fd6e16b725d (Other Finding Aid Note)","This material was originally acquired in 2009 as a direct network transfer from Yale shared network attached storage and artificial logical AD1 forensic images were created. AD1 images were extracted in May 2020 and resulting files processed. Audio files which had been originally recorded in short sequential tracks, were merged together into a single processed master wav file with fre:ac software. (Processinfo)"]}}],"summary":{"en":["The materials are open for research.","Rolly Phillips was born March 31, 1943, in Brooklyn, New York.  Brought up in Pocatello, Idaho, she is the eldest of six children.  Her mother was the first woman to graduate from the University of Idaho Law School and was a practicing lawyer all her life.  Phillips gained her B.A. from Bryn Mawr College in 1965.  She then spent two years as a Fulbright Scholar at Newnham College, Cambridge, England.  She earned a Ph.D. in classics from Harvard in 1970.   After teaching summer school at the University of Massachusetts, Boston, she was hired by Yale as an Instructor in Classics in the fall of 1970.  At that time there was only one other woman in the department, a lecturer, Anne Parry, wife of then Chair, Adam Milman Parry. From 1971-1977, Rolly Phillips was an Assistant Professor in Classics.  Knowing that she was unlikely to get tenure, she left Yale and taught for almost three years at Barnard College, New York.  She then decided not to continue a career in higher education and obtained a position teaching classics at Fieldston School, New York, where she still teaches.","Rolly Phillips discusses her upbringing and education, paying tribute in particular to her mother as a role model of the successful professional woman. She recalls her undergraduate years at Bryn Mawr, especially the social challenges she experienced.  She recalls teachers like Richard Lattimore, the classicist and poet.  She describes life as a female graduate student at Harvard and Cambridge Universities and the cultural differences she encountered.  In particular she recalls some of the difficulties faced by female scholars at Harvard.  Dr. Phillips talks about how she was hired by Yale, and the encouragement she received from Eric Havelock, Sterling Professor of Classics.  She touches on the issue of affirmative action, relationships between junior and senior faculty, and between women faculty, and talks at length about the pleasures of teaching Yale undergraduates, both men and women.  She discusses tenure at Yale and why she believed she was unlikely to achieve it.  She briefly recalls her time at Barnard College, and concludes her interview by discussing her reasons for choosing a career of high school teaching.  She describes how her teaching experience at Yale influenced her teaching younger students at Fieldston School.","https://preservica.library.yale.edu/explorer/explorer.html#prop:4\u0026e6a938d6-5b48-4834-bffd-0fd6e16b725d","This material was originally acquired in 2009 as a direct network transfer from Yale shared network attached storage and artificial logical AD1 forensic images were created. AD1 images were extracted in May 2020 and resulting files processed. Audio files which had been originally recorded in short sequential tracks, were merged together into a single processed master wav file with fre:ac software."]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["Access to the materials is partially restricted. See Collection Contents for details.\n\nOriginal computer files may not be accessed due to their fragility. Researchers must consult access copies."]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Manuscripts and Archives Yale University Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Manuscripts and Archives Yale University Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/013/original/yale-blue.png?1678220072","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - open-uri20210827-32762-sr5mdd.mpga"]},"duration":6969.52163,"width":640,"height":40,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-yalemssa.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/122/271/original/open-uri20210827-32762-sr5mdd.mpga?1630069752","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":6969.52163,"width":640,"height":40},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["ru_1051_2012-a-049_phillips_rolly_edited_transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Recording? Yes. I think we're recording. So the first thing I'll do, Rolly, if I may, is I'll just mark it with the date and where we are, and that's for the record. This is Florence Minnis. It's for the Yale Women's Oral History Project. And I'm with Dr. Rolly Phillips at her home at 740 West End Avenue, New York. Thank you very much for doing this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=0.0,33.73313"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e You're welcome.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=33.73313,34.63268"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm thrilled that you can do it. I'm also thrilled because you're the first classicist that I've managed to track down. So I'll be very curious to see what you have to say about classics at Yale. Most of the women in humanities I think, certainly from the period that you were at Yale, were mostly employed in the English department. And then the rest of you were scattered I think throughout the other departments in Yale College. Before we get on to Yale, what I'd like to ask you about if you're agreeable is to get a sense of your own background and where you were born, what kind of family background you had, and let's take it from there if that's all right with you.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=34.63268,94.003"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e OK, that's fine. I have to say in the context of women in academic life my mother's contribution was just immense. She was I believe the first female graduate of the law school at University of Idaho and that's where she met her husband. They moved to New York because he had a job offer, a law job in New York. And they stayed in New York only up until the war broke out. And then my mother and I went back to stay with relatives in Idaho. My father went off to war. But she has always been a feminist. She has always achieved a lot herself in addition to bringing up six children. She worked as a practicing lawyer really all her life and was active in various volunteer activities. So I had a wonderful example of achievement right there at home, and that was very very important. And Idaho was a backwards place I would say, in terms of the life of the mind. So even when I was still in high school I knew I wanted to go east to college. I didn't really want to spend my—I really didn't want to spend my life in Idaho. But so I did go to a women's college, Bryn Mawr, and I was very happy there.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=94.003,206.48012"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Can we go back to your family again? You said your mother was a tremendous example to you and your siblings. Was she a hard act to follow in that respect?\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=206.48012,220.02739"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, I would say she was. She didn't put on airs or anything, but yes I would say she definitely was.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=220.02739,247.22973"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Were both your parents very supportive of you and your siblings going on to higher education and getting yourselves—\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=247.22973,253.68574"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh definitely yeah definitely.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=253.68574,255.10672"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e It was taken for granted?\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=255.10672,256.58038"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes it was taken for granted, yes.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=256.58038,258.81522"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e I was going to ask you did your mother work outside the home, but clearly she did.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=258.81522,262.71567"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, although she worked mainly in partnership with my father. So it wasn't entirely outside the home. And then they got a divorce pretty late in their marriage. I was in graduate school at the time. And then at that point she worked for another firm of lawyers. But she went on with her law practice.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=262.71567,281.19286"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e You went to high school then in Idaho?\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=281.19286,282.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e I did yes.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=282.0,283.08"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Now what sort of high school did you go to?\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=283.08,288.19483"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e It was—I'm trying to think. I think there were two public high schools in Pocatello, which is my hometown. And one just went to the closest one, and that's what I did. And it was fine.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=288.19483,309.70404"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e You would have been at high school in the late '50s?\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=309.70404,312.96266"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e That's right. I graduated in—let's see. I believe it was '61.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=312.96266,322.51754"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes late '50s, early '60s. I just wondered. You've described to me, and I've never been to Idaho, that it was clearly a place that you wanted to get out of. Was the high school a place where girls would be encouraged to excel academically or was it irrelevant?\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=322.51754,347.53298"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm not sure how much actual encouragement there was. I don't think anybody was prevented from studying. My part of Idaho was heavily Mormon and that had a big effect on boys and girls who grew up in that religion, the choices they would make afterwards. A lot of the boys went on missions overseas like—well, I don't know if you follow the presidential campaigns, but Mitt Romney for instance was a Mormon who went on a mission to Europe. And that was very common for the boys, and a lot of the girls got married very very young, sometimes before they had even completed high school. Certainly not all of the Mormon girls did that. I don't mean to suggest that at all. But it's just that maybe they didn't necessarily have their eyes on the far horizons to the extent that maybe some other non-Mormon kids growing up in Pocatello did.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=347.53298,424.35912"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e So did you feel comfortable in that environment?\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=424.35912,430.42898"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e I felt very uncomfortable in high school. I didn't have—I had a few friends, but none that lasted beyond high school.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=430.42898,440.2778"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e So you were keen to go?\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=440.2778,442.84706"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e I was, yes, chomping at the bit.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=442.84706,445.83638"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Were there any teachers at high school who maybe took particular interest or encouragement?\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=445.83638,451.81503"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, there certainly were, yeah.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=451.81503,453.94412"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e And did you decide that you—you said you went to Bryn Mawr for your undergraduate years. Did you decide that you wanted to go to an all women's college or was that—\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=453.94412,468.84778"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes I definitely did. I hadn't ruled out necessarily going to a big coed school, but I was just trying to read about the different colleges and what they offered, and when I started reading about Bryn Mawr I really liked it, and I wrote for some more information, and then I started getting responses from them, and they were very welcoming and so forth. And so I really decided pretty early on not only that I wanted to go to a women's college, but that I really did want to go to Bryn Mawr.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=468.84778,524.33796"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e What was it that particularly attracted you to Bryn Mawr?\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=524.33796,527.87357"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I think that it had very high academic standards. That was one thing that attracted me. The person that I was sent to visit—I think all colleges have these alumni or alumnae interviews that they do—and to me that was very important. I had to travel quite a ways. We had to drive down to Salt Lake, because there was somebody in northern Idaho, but when the weather was bad, you have to go over these dire mountain passes and so forth. And so Salt Lake seemed a better bet. But anyway it was a quite elderly—well, by my then standpoint as a high school senior—elderly woman. She was just lovely. She was so—she wanted to know all about me, and she said oh you would love Bryn Mawr so much. And she just seemed really eager to see me at that school, and I just felt so supported. And I know at that point I was already interested in continuing my study of Latin, which I had begun in high school.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=527.87357,597.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e So you had actually done Latin at high school.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=597.0,599.90289"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e I'd done Latin at high school, all that they offered, which wasn't that much.\r But I know I talked to her about that and most people in Pocatello could not imagine making classics your lifework. Really that wasn't even on anybody's radar. But the fact that this woman thought it was normal to want to study classics was obviously a big plus.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=599.90289,641.4219"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Were your parents happy to see you go so far away to do it?\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=641.4219,647.96894"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e I think they understood, yeah. They never said anything about why don't you stay in Pocatello or why don't you go nearer, anything like that.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=647.96894,659.24295"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e What about the six siblings? Did you have brothers and sisters?\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=659.24295,666.78395"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, there were three boys and three girls in the family, yeah.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=666.78395,669.6472"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e And everybody went off to college?\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=669.6472,671.93446"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, in some fashion or other. The youngest brother was always a little bit of a black sheep and I think he was in and out of junior colleges and things like that. And anyway his life has turned out fine, but the rest of us did a more conventional going to college routine and then getting a job.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=671.93446,703.21169"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Where were you in the—\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=703.21169,704.97177"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm the eldest.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=704.97177,706.74415"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e  You are the eldest.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=706.74415,707.7667"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes that's right.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=707.7667,710.33628"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e That's interesting that often high achieving women are the eldest.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=710.33628,713.92217"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah I think probably they're the pioneers or something.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=713.92217,720.69811"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e They are, yeah. So would you say that growing up that your mother really was the biggest influence on your?\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=720.69811,729.77669"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I'd have to say that my siblings were very important to me too. It's not that they were role models really. If anything I might have been the role model for them just because I was older. But their good opinion mattered to me, let's say. But I would say that my mother in terms of my intellectual life and everything was certainly the biggest influence.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=729.77669,760.10903"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Was it a strict upbringing?\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=760.10903,762.37264"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e No, I wouldn't say it was strict. I wouldn't say it was lolling about the house all day either.\r\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=762.37264,770.94615"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e So I think what I'm trying to get at—was there pressure to succeed coming from within your own home background?\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=770.94615,780.87337"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't think there was pressure to succeed. I think there was a feeling that we should all try to be good students and give it our best. And I think, except for my baby brother, everybody in that household was pretty intellectual, and our orientation was that way. I think it didn't occur to any of us that we wouldn't be able to go to college for instance.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=780.87337,811.89124"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e What was it like turning up at Bryn Mawr for that first semester? Can you remember what it was like?\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=811.89124,820.88193"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e I felt like the country bumpkin. There were all these people who were talking about MOMA and the Metropolitan Museum and I had never been to any museum whatsoever. And they used to have—there was a college in my hometown, and they had a theater program and occasionally we'd go to see plays, which was a big thrill for me, but it wasn't anything like going to a Broadway show. And during my first year at Bryn Mawr I went with a friend, I think it was over Thanksgiving vacation, we went to New York. Just staring at everything. I just thought it was completely beyond me. Whoa. I didn't know how to cope with all the abundance of the stuff that is here, and everybody in the college—and I know now that wasn't at all true—but my impression was that everybody was so sophisticated and so knowledgeable about art and music and drama as well as whatever academic field they may have been studying.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=820.88193,908.0241"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e A cultured place?\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=908.0241,909.91727"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. A real shock.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=909.91727,914.04602"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Were you intimidated by that?\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=914.04602,916.37084"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e I was, and I remember in my first semester I lost an awful lot of weight and I was extremely nervous. I wasn't consciously unhappy but I clearly was unhappy underneath it all. And I remember I didn't like my English professor and I thought of myself as being a good writer, and my English teacher quickly told me I needed to learn a lot more about writing, and of course he was completely right. But anyway I just felt very insecure that first semester. Then by the end of the year though I was really flourishing there. So I had one bad semester and everything else at Bryn Mawr was just smooth sailing and wonderful.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=916.37084,970.21861"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Did you get through that tough first semester on your own? Or did you feel you were supported? Looking back—obviously when you're there at the time it's not necessarily clear to you. But maybe looking back was there anybody who took particular interest in you, looked out for you? If you were clearly wasting away?\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=970.21861,996.67828"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e There were some people in my dorm, just my peers really. And I'm not sure, I think some people did mention my weight loss. And it seems to me that maybe that same English teacher—I don't know if he met me on campus one day and he just said are you getting enough to eat. He just expressed some kind of concern, which was—first of all it astonished me, and second of all it was very gratifying to see that somebody was taking a bit of an interest.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=996.67828,1039.28784"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Certainly I think from what I've read Bryn Mawr was and maybe still remains well known for very good relationships between faculty and students. Do you think that was the case at your time?\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1039.28784,1055.03486"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes I do, I do, yeah.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1055.03486,1057.80489"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e And the faculty, was it mostly men or was it men and women in equal numbers?\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1057.80489,1065.19165"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e I have the sense that it was approximately equal numbers, but I don't have anything to prove that. But certainly in classics most of my teachers were women. It was of course a very tiny department. I did have only in my senior year just because he had been on sabbatical or not teaching the courses that—you move up the ladder of the courses and he wasn't teaching any that I could have taken at that point, so I had him only in my senior year, but he's Richmond Lattimore, who translated the Iliad and the Odyssey of Homer, and in his time his translation of the Iliad in particular was the translation that everybody across the country read if they were doing courses, and if they weren't reading things in the original Greek, they were reading Lattimore. And he was a poet in his own right. And I thought that was just—to study with a person like that was of enormous value I found. And I was sorry I hadn't got to know him before my senior year. But I just really got so much from all of my classics professors. And because it was such a small department in terms of students and faculty, the people really got to know you. So that was very very good.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1065.19165,1167.79323"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e There was a sense that faculty would encourage you towards excellence and possibly graduate work?\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1167.79323,1174.69468"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, yes, yeah. They were perfectly happy to have people go out and do other kinds of careers if they didn't want an academic career. But I think that they were particularly happy when people did pursue an academic career.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1174.69468,1192.76991"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e What was the social life like?\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1192.76991,1195.48119"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, there were these dreadful mixers that they used to have.\r Boys would come from other colleges and stuff. And I never went to any of them. My friends in the dorm used to say oh we ought to fix you up with somebody, you ought to try and go out. And I just said no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, just leave me alone, I do not want to do this. So I didn't.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1195.48119,1228.59976"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Did that cause problems for you?\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1228.59976,1231.18043"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, the opposite would have caused problems if I had against my own desires tried to start dating people, because I did not want to do that. And that was another big advantage of Bryn Mawr at the time. Now there are boys in the dorms and everything. Even though it's still officially a women's college there are a lot of people from Haverford who take courses at Bryn Mawr. Even in my day there were people from Haverford and Swarthmore who were coming to Bryn Mawr for courses and vice versa. And that was fine with me obviously. But nowadays they do actually have boys from other campuses living in the dorms.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1231.18043,1279.70537"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Was it the kind of—the formal mixer was the thing that you really disliked? Rather than informal friendships with—\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1279.70537,1289.1527"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, the thing is there was no chance the way Bryn Mawr was then for informal friendships to form, because it would have been one thing if I had ever been in a class with more than one boy in it. I think there might have been one boy who was in one of my classics courses and that was it. That was probably when I was a senior. And now as I say things are different because even if you're at a place like Bryn Mawr there are going to be plenty of guys in the classes.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1289.1527,1331.15074"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Was there ever talk in your day of Bryn Mawr ever going coed? Because I think that was certainly an issue later on.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1331.15074,1341.00742"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e It was an issue. And we used to have these famous seven sisters they were called, and most of them now are coed schools, like Vassar. I think Wellesley is still single-sex though, right?\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1341.00742,1355.539"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah I think so.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1355.539,1357.2486"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, but there was talk I think. I'm sure in all of these schools there was talk among the students. I'm not sure. And probably among the faculty and administration too. But I don't recall that it ever really was a serious issue at Bryn Mawr, I don't think they ever—\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1357.2486,1379.40703"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e And so it's not something that you would talk about amongst your peers?\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1379.40703,1384.94663"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, if there had been something to talk about. If there had been some indication that it was ever likely to happen maybe. But we were very devoted to our founder. And I'm not sure that's true in even all small liberal arts colleges, that people even know who their founder was or anything about him or her. But this M. Carey Thomas, who just sounds like in many ways a pretty awful woman, but she was a very strong woman and she was very dedicated to women's education. And so people did—students did talk about her an awful lot, and were fascinated by her, and looked up to her ideals, to wit, that a woman should be prepared to excel and do well in professional life, in academic life, whatever called you.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1384.94663,1468.11338"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Would you say then that the young women who came to Bryn Mawr were a particular kind of young woman?\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1468.11338,1475.13179"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e I would say they most of them were, yeah. I would say most of them weren't social butterflies or anything.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1475.13179,1482.15878"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e So fairly serious girls?\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1482.15878,1484.44568"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, yes, right.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1484.44568,1487.09688"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Just to hear you talk about the founder it makes me think that—of course towards the end of your undergraduate career would have been a time when Betty Friedan's Feminine Mystique was published, when the first Civil Rights Act—the Civil Rights Act—was passed, and Kennedy's committee on the status of women was brought together under Eleanor Roosevelt. I just wondered how much of those things, especially in a women's college like Bryn Mawr, how much one was aware of those things, and the nascent feminist movement.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1487.09688,1523.61806"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I think we—certainly I at that time were not as aware as we should have been about what was going on in the outside world. It just kills me in some ways when I think back. You mentioned civil rights. Of course that was the great age for civil rights. Well, at that period as long as I was a student there, and it lasted a bit after I graduated, we had maids in the dorms who came and made the beds for us, which is ridiculous. Why should anybody be making a college student's bed? But nevertheless that's what they did, and they served in the dining room. And again nowadays it's all cafeterias and you just take your own food, nobody serves you. We had these very elegant tables and people came and put the dishes in front of us and all of those people were black. And there were porters who were exclusively black as well. And we were just so isolated. It didn't even occur to us that it could be horrifying, the way we were living. And there were very very few black students at that time. There were a few overseas students who were of various nationalities, and some of them may have been people of color, of different kinds of color, and so forth. But there were very very few in those days. And a lot more now I'm happy to say from what I understand. But the same with feminism. I don't think we were discussing Betty Friedan in those days. I doubt that I had heard of her before I graduated. So we were pretty isolated from the outer world, amazingly so when you think about it.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1523.61806,1652.03346"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Very protected environment.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1652.03346,1653.3665"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, yeah, completely protected.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1653.3665,1655.1385"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Do you think that was good for women in a way?\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1655.1385,1660.01152"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, it was probably good for me to grow up in an atmosphere where I felt so safe. It probably was a hindrance to people who may have been a little stronger and may have been able to branch out a little bit more, learn a little bit more from the outside world.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1660.01152,1683.41653"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e But I wonder too if that kind of environment is maybe intellectually also a safe environment, not just to mature physically and emotionally, but to mature in an intellectual sense. Where some other environments maybe would not have been as easy for women to do that.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1683.41653,1703.73032"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, yeah, that's a tricky question, because in some ways a more challenging environment where you had to prove your intellectual qualifications maybe would have been better for some people.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1703.73032,1716.91795"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e That's an interesting way of looking at it.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1716.91795,1720.43465"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e It was certainly a very nurturing environment and the teachers expected us to do our best, no question about it, and they had very high standards, and they expected us to meet them, that is certainly true. But it was very supportive.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1720.43465,1742.02907"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Was there a lot of competition?\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1742.02907,1744.70522"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't really recall that. I don't think there was jealousy of—\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1744.70522,1752.68439"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Was it a hothouse atmosphere?\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1752.68439,1754.62355"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e What do you mean by that exactly?\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1754.62355,1757.31537"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh maybe that's a British—\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1757.31537,1759.60205"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e No, I know, like pampering kind of thing?\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1759.60205,1763.00001"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, yes, it's like maybe when you have a lot of racehorses together and everybody's being pushed to the limits all the time, physical—horses obviously are pushed to their physical limits—but I just wondered if in certain intellectual environments there's a sense that you're pushed to your intellectual limits all the time, you're always being put on the spot.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1763.00001,1789.05254"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I think that one was often put on the spot, that is true. And there was this one saying that we always used to bandy about, and it was apparently a misquotation of our founder.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1789.05254,1807.50371"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e What she supposedly really said was our failures only marry, meaning they marry and they do nothing in particular after that. But we always had it quoted to us as only our failures marry. And I remember that on my floor in my dorm there was a pair of seniors who were roommates and they were both I thought very nice people, very smart and just had everything going for them. Well, one of them turned out to have got pregnant her senior year, and when the news got around I was just tremendously shocked, and she was—well, I think she was going to get married at the end of that year. And so then I just—I felt so miserable for her because I thought well her life is really over, because now she can't go to graduate school, as if that's the pinnacle of life is going to graduate school. But it was being married and having a family was looked upon as a step downward. So it's not that—everybody there I think really did want to get married eventually. But certainly not right out of college like that. So in that sense maybe there could have been a certain amount of pressure to keep one's mind on the academic business and not have too many other interests besides that.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1807.50371,1927.21082"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, several of the women that I've talked to, they would be older than you, say that when they were at college the thing was to get pinned. That was the word they used. Pinned to somebody.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1927.21082,1944.45228"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh really? Yes, yes.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1944.45228,1946.4423"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e By the end of your senior year. And if you hadn't done that you really had wasted your college years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1946.4423,1951.44543"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, that was the opposite of Bryn Mawr, yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1951.44543,1954.92857"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e And if you didn't do it then you had to do it in graduate school.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1954.92857,1960.211"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh dear. When the pickings were probably pretty slim I imagine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1960.211,1965.12252"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, they were different probably.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1965.12252,1967.85278"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1967.85278,1970.35191"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e You said that you went to Bryn Mawr really with certainly the beginnings of the intention of majoring in classics.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1970.35191,1974.26014"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1974.26014,1975.69991"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e And that was reinforced during your undergraduate years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1975.69991,1979.52452"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Absolutely.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1979.52452,1980.4769"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e So by the time you came to your senior year, that was what you wanted to do?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1980.4769,1988.53997"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, definitely.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1988.53997,1989.95683"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Did you link that desire to do more in classics and do classics graduate work, did you link that in your mind with maybe being an academic as a profession?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=1989.95683,2004.06493"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2004.06493,2005.00088"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e You did. So you'd say that by the time you got to 21 or 22 you thought that's probably what you wanted to do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2005.00088,2016.17725"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2016.17725,2017.56658"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm just wondering given that, trying to put yourself back into your 21-year-old mind, what was it that attracted you about the academic life as a profession.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2017.56658,2030.00067"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, it would give me the chance to work in a field that I loved. And there really—unless one is going to be another Richmond Lattimore and write poetry based on the ancient classics or something, there aren't that many ways to pursue classics and get paid for it unless you're in an academic position. So that's what I chose to do. I should say though that I was very fortunate right after I left Bryn Mawr. I had a two-year Fulbright to Cambridge, to Newnham College, Cambridge, and I pursued classics there as well, but I was able to take some ancient history and archeology courses too. Those for one reason or another I just hadn't studied. I'd had one ancient history course at Bryn Mawr I think, and that was all. So I got to branch out within the field of classics and that was certainly very valuable.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2030.00067,2100.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e But again I always had the idea that I would end up in a teaching position somewhere.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2100.0,2108.01887"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e What was it like coming from the States in the mid '60s to somewhere like Newnham? Obviously you had the women's college bit in common. I just wondered did it feel a very different place both within the college and outside it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2108.01887,2127.79823"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e It just felt like heaven. I never found anything so wonderful. I loved it. I loved the people that I go to know, the supervisors, the quaintness, the beauty of all the colleges. It was just paradise.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2127.79823,2145.66294"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e So it was a very happy time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2145.66294,2148.94774"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah it was a very happy time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2148.94774,2152.69479"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Would you like to have stayed there? Would that have been an option?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2152.69479,2158.77223"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I practically did stay there. I went back there for several summers during my graduate school and in my early teaching days. Then a lot of the friends that I had had in my Newnham days were still—they were maybe in London now instead of in Cambridge, but they were still pretty accessible so I could see them. And of course that didn't last forever. But yeah, well, I never really thought of just trying to live there permanently. I think that would have been hard. My sister did it. But I guess I just didn't want to go that far. I was always satisfied with whatever I managed to find in the United States.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2158.77223,2214.29661"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e So when you finished your Fulbright you must have applied then to graduate school here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2214.29661,2221.27794"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e That's right. I went back to Cambridge, Mass and went to Harvard and I was able to get a PhD in a quite short time. I think the work I had done in Cambridge, the other Cambridge, had been tremendously helpful in putting me on a fast track there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2221.27794,2244.4886"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Why did you choose Harvard? That must have been your first proper coed experience.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2244.4886,2250.96824"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, that was. At this point I can't remember why I applied to Harvard. And I suppose I must have applied to other schools. I know I met an older man. This was my one romance in my life when I was in Cambridge, and his base was the University of Michigan, and I think I maybe thought about that for a little bit of time. But I don't know, I think Harvard was the only place I applied to for some reason. And they gave me a generous fellowship and it was great. So I went there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2250.96824,2296.64671"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e What was it like after having all your higher education to that time, probably best part of six years, in a single-sex environment? What was it like to be maybe a minority for the first time?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2296.64671,2313.18323"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, yeah. It wasn't as stressful as I had maybe thought it was going to be. And I did make quite a few friends among my fellow graduate students there at Harvard. And they were male and female friends. So I think that usually graduate students are so miserable that there's just this mutual sympathy among them and well, at least I don't remember—obviously there must be competition there, and maybe in some fields more than others, but I don't remember feeling this cutthroat oh got to do well in my exams or else I'll never get a job. I didn't really feel that kind of pressure. So I was fortunate. And I did meet a lot of really interesting people, male and female, there. So it doesn't seem to have bothered me that much.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2313.18323,2376.23962"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Did you ever get a sense that the expectations for women graduate students were the same as for men?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2376.23962,2384.75749"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e I think we certainly felt, we women felt, that our expectations were the same as—namely that we would get our PhDs and we'd go out and get a job somewhere in academia.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2384.75749,2400.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e That's what we took for granted. And I don't know, I guess the guys would have been embarrassed to say that those weren't their expectations for us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2400.0,2413.65936"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Do you think that was the expectation for your supervisors, the people who were teaching you at that point?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2413.65936,2423.25455"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e I have no reason to think that they weren't equally supportive.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2423.25455,2429.30363"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, yeah, I suppose what I'm trying to get a sense of, whether you ever felt or indeed had evidence of but certainly felt that there was any sexism or discrimination.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2429.30363,2444.90138"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e I never really did at all. I can't say that ever came up.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2444.90138,2451.93165"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Were there any teachers that were particularly encouraging or took on a mentoring role? Because getting yourself prepared to go into academic life requires a lot of support and a lot of advice and careful nurturing. I just wondered if maybe there was anyone at Harvard who took on that role with you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2451.93165,2478.49251"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e I did not find that I was really very close to any of the professors. And I'm trying to remember if I ever had any classes with a woman. I don't think I did. And I'm thinking now of a woman who taught at Barnard for many years but she also taught at other places. And she once came to Yale for a semester as a visiting professor. And she in my Barnard days especially but also in that brief period when I knew her at Yale, I just found her insights really valuable. And she'd had such an interesting life. She was one of those, like many classicists during the war, she was one of those code breakers. And anyway she really did have a nurturing attitude to not only graduate students but her younger colleagues at Barnard, the female colleagues I mean. Not that she wasn't nice to the young men as well. But that's the kind of relationship that would have been nice to have at Harvard, and I can't think of anybody who—first of all I can't think of any women professors. But it's not that the men were mean. My thesis advisor for instance was a very lovely man. But he was born in Germany. He fled during the Nazi times and everything. And I just looked up to him from afar, and he was so formal and so dignified and everything. And obviously he gave me enormous help when I was writing my thesis. But I would never have brought up any kind of personal problems or anything with him. And I don't recall any of the teachers. There were some young professors who were pretty friendly with some of the graduate students, but there you're not really on a looking up basis anyway. You're just almost peers. So it's a different thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2478.49251,2634.49778"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e When you were a graduate student that would have been '67 to '70, '71?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2634.49778,2641.44499"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2641.44499,2642.42911"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e I just wondered if in your graduate years whether there was in classical studies the emergence of interest in women's issues in relation to the classics. Now there is of course. There are all sorts of courses now that look at women in the classical world. But I just wondered if there was any sense of any of that coming. Because women's history was beginning to take off.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2642.42911,2675.60555"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, I would say there was starting to be an interest.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2675.60555,2681.34542"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Was it something that you were aware of or indeed involved in in any way?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2681.34542,2714.33197"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I can't say that I took any courses that had that particular focus. But people were interested in writing about women in antiquity certainly.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2714.33197,2730.69913"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e And I think there has always been a lot of interest and more in recent years than earlier in all of those Greek tragedies that have women protagonists, women as victims, women as this, that or the other. So male and female scholars have paid attention over the years. But now with a different focus I would say than there used to be.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2730.69913,2757.62922"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Was your own thesis involved at all in any of those issues?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2757.62922,2762.74973"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e No, no, not at all, it was a very minor—I wouldn't even call him a historian. What he did was he went through and read other people's longer histories and his writings were called stratagems, so they all had to do with military things, how some general got out of a desperate situation, what clever thing he did. So they're like about a paragraph apiece, and it was dull as can be. But anyway there it was. And I think there are a few women mentioned in his, because they were affected by military maneuvers of course, so some of them were clever and came to the fore. But very few.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2762.74973,2811.30723"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e I suppose maybe you were just on the whole probably a little bit too young to be actively thinking of writing a dissertation on a specific women's subject. That would have happened probably more in the mid '70s.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2811.30723,2827.45661"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, when I came to write my dissertation I felt that I would have loved to write it on Thucydides or something like that, one of the major historians, and it's not that I deliberately said oh I'm ruling out women, I was really interested in one particular genre. But you didn't really get to choose what you wrote on. You just had to accept guidance, and that's what I did. So it certainly wasn't a question of not being interested in women as they figured in the pages of the great historians and dramatists and whatever else it may have been. Because I was interested in all that stuff, but I'd never—I wouldn't have written on Greek tragedy I think, because that wasn't just what I had studied the most of, and I didn't feel the confidence about that genre that I did maybe about the historical writers.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2827.45661,2891.89542"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e How much was feminism generally a burning issue at Harvard at that time?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2891.89542,2897.38511"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e I would say that people were interested, yeah, and I'm sure that among the graduate students we talked about the dearth of female professors and things like that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2897.38511,2909.58114"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Were there many other women graduates doing classics with you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2909.58114,2913.7672"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah quite a few. If you include classics in the broadest sense like art history and history as well as the literature, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2913.7672,2923.7652"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e So it wasn't as it were a male-dominated graduate body?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2923.7652,2927.9084"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Probably there were more men than women, but I didn't feel that I had no female friends for instance or female contacts among graduate students for sure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2927.9084,2939.44306"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e So you weren't all alone.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2939.44306,2941.4889"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e No, no, far from it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2941.4889,2943.92686"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Because I certainly interviewed a couple women who were the only female student in their discipline.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2943.92686,2950.38132"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e In their department, yeah. Well, that could vary a great deal by discipline I'm sure. And the humanities were probably much better than sciences and math, my God, can hardly even imagine what that must have been like.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2950.38132,2965.9872"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e I think a challenge.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2965.9872,2967.56919"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, yeah, oh, and this Barnard professor that I was mentioning a little while ago—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2967.56919,2974.21164"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e What was her name?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2974.21164,2975.75125"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Helen Bacon. And she told me this incredible story. She had gone to—well she would have been affiliated with Radcliffe in those days. But she had spent some time at Harvard. And she was allowed to use—this was all the women in her position in those days—she was allowed to use Widener Library but only standing up.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=2975.75125,3000.0"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e She was not allowed to go to a carrel and take a book and sit down. Whatever book she wanted she had to just go find it in the stacks and just stand there reading it in the stacks, and that was it. That was the story she told.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3000.0,3046.43971"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/168","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Good heavens.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3046.43971,3048.20341"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/169","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Good heavens is right. It's so revolting that they could treat women this way. Hard to believe.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3048.20341,3059.71861"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/170","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Bears more investigation, that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3059.71861,3061.75191"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/171","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes it does.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3061.75191,3064.28102"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/172","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e I never heard that before.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3064.28102,3066.49665"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/173","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah I'd never heard of anything remotely like it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3066.49665,3070.5435"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/174","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Certainly I've never heard anybody saying like that about women at Yale before it went coed. I shall—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3070.5435,3078.21898"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/175","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah but this was way, way back when she would have been a graduate student.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3078.21898,3084.6708"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/176","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Of course Yale was one of the first of the Ivies to take women graduate students. I think the first female graduate student came in in 1893, which was—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3084.6708,3096.74533"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/177","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh yeah?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3096.74533,3097.9504"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/178","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah if I can remember rightly from what I read, I think Chicago and Yale were the earliest.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3097.9504,3105.16645"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/179","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Wow.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3105.16645,3105.96659"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/180","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, so there's always been a fairly—a reasonably big presence of female graduate students at Yale, long before coed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3105.96659,3114.35075"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/181","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e But it took them so long to go coed on the undergraduate level.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3114.35075,3119.9282"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/182","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, yeah, it was '69 when the first cohort came in. And there had been talk I think in the late '50s and certainly the early '60s, but it didn't really take off until the mid '60s, and I think there were a lot of different reasons for it as well at that point, and there was talk of a Vassar-Yale coordinate college in the mid '60s, but that died the death for a variety of reasons, and then finally they went coed in '69.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3119.9282,3153.7165"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/183","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e And when did Vassar go coed? Was that after '69?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3153.7165,3158.07726"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/184","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Do you know I don't know?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3158.07726,3160.44923"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/185","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Because I never heard of this plan to combine Vassar and Yale.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3160.44923,3165.57397"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/186","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah there was definitely for a short while, there was talk of a coordinate college.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3165.57397,3171.46985"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/187","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e It seems bizarre because they're so far apart geographically.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3171.46985,3175.38845"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/188","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Well yes, yeah, that was one of the reasons why it never worked, because geographically how could you? It would be very difficult for everybody. So you did your PhD at Harvard in record time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3175.38845,3189.06057"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/189","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, pretty fast, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3189.06057,3191.00687"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/190","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Pretty fast, yes. And when did you start thinking about what was going to happen after graduate school?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3191.00687,3197.98864"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/191","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I was thinking about it all the time. And I was—let's see. It seems to me the summer before I went to Yale, and actually in previous summers too I had done a little bit of teaching, like one time U Mass Boston needed somebody to teach elementary Latin over the summer and I did that, and I did some kind of teaching the summer before I went to Yale. But of course I actually got the job the end of that spring. And so it was pretty amazing that I just went right out of graduate school and into a Yale job. I certainly didn't have my standard set that high. I was amazed that it happened.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3197.98864,3245.13025"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/192","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Why do you think it happened?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3245.13025,3247.43248"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/193","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't know, I don't know. I think that my professor with whom I had done the thesis, he was certainly very supportive, he wrote for me and everything. And then when I was interviewed at Yale there was this elderly professor who was quite famous, and he seemed to take to me. I have no idea. But I just think I was very lucky.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3247.43248,3312.09787"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/194","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e So you came in the fall of '71, is that right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3312.09787,3315.33599"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/195","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e It might have been '70. I think it was '70.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3315.33599,3320.43221"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/196","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Because I'm just wondering if there was maybe in the fact that you got hired by Yale, obviously you had the right qualifications and everything else, but I just wonder if the fact that the university had so recently gone coed, that there was an awareness maybe that more women, they needed women.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3320.43221,3343.83444"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/197","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, that they needed women. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure that's true. And it's interesting. The wife of this elderly man who was interested in me—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3343.83444,3355.30454"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/198","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Would this have been Havelock?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3355.30454,3357.42495"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/199","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Havelock, yes. His wife Christine or Christina Havelock, I can't remember which it was, but she was in art history. She wasn't in the classics department. But she was a female professor there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3357.42495,3371.81858"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/200","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e So she was at Yale at that time?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3371.81858,3375.19905"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/201","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e She was at Yale at that time. And yeah as a faculty member, and I think as a full professor. I think she had been there for some time. So that probably meant that even though she wasn't in the classics department—first of all as an art historian she did a certain amount with classical art as I recall. And so maybe that department was amenable to female colleagues. Could be.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3375.19905,3406.40969"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/202","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e I must see if I can get hold of the departmental records to see if there's anything at all that might give us a clue. What was the job market like, looking back when you started looking for your first faculty job? Can you remember what it was like in the very early '70s? Was it a robust market or was it a very slim pickings?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3406.40969,3434.18569"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/203","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e It was just so amazingly easy for me, and I don't know whether it was easy for everybody at that time, like all of my Harvard mates, whether they found it equally easy. But one of them who was just a little bit behind me ended up at Yale, and he's that same one who's still there now. So I know that there are certain people whom I remember from my graduate school days who did get very nice jobs at places that were comparable to Yale, although they may not actually have been at Yale, but good places. So maybe it was a good time, assuming that you were a strong student and had a Harvard background. I would think it would make it easier.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3434.18569,3487.49814"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/204","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, certainly would probably put you ahead of the pack.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3487.49814,3491.68036"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/205","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I think so.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3491.68036,3493.76343"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/206","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Did you feel, given the university had just gone coed when you arrived, did you feel at all that you were a pioneer or a guinea pig?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3493.76343,3504.96807"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/207","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e I did feel that a bit, and especially since when I started there I was—no, it's not entirely true that I was the only woman in the department. I'm trying to remember how this was. There was a very famous classicist named Adam Parry and he was there. He may even have been head of the department when I was interviewed. Anyway he was there and his wife was also a classicist, and so she must have been part of the department. Anyway they were killed in a horrible car crash I think maybe the first summer I was there. In other words I'd been there like a year and they were killed after that. So then obviously I was the only woman. But then during my time at Yale there was another woman who was hired.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3504.96807,3562.81359"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/208","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Who was that? Can you recall?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3562.81359,3565.26544"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/209","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Susan Stephens I believe is her name. And she works on—I think it's things like papyrology, Egyptian finds and stuff like that. So something very very remote from my field. And I didn't know her very well. But we were colleagues certainly.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3565.26544,3583.4405"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/210","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e What were your first impressions of Yale when you came?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3583.4405,3587.38324"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/211","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I think I mentioned this in our earlier conversation, that when I came for my official visit to the campus it was when all the Black Panther protests were going on.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3587.38324,3604.83144"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/212","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e And everybody was out with the bullhorns and all that. And so I was very impressed. Here is history taking place before my eyes. And then when I actually got there in the fall it was all people throwing Frisbees and no political consciousness whatsoever. So that was an interesting shock. But I really loved what I was doing there. The courses were nice. I quickly made friends with some of the younger teachers there. And I was happy with my little cheap apartment on Whitney Avenue. I really had a wonderful, wonderful time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3604.83144,3647.58313"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/213","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e What was the culture like? Did you find it a friendly culture?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3647.58313,3653.03097"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/214","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e I did. And I got to know some graduate students mainly, although also some junior faculty, in other departments besides classics. And I'm not sure exactly how that transpired, but somehow it did. I guess that people who were already there, some of the younger junior faculty members just—they introduced you around and so forth, so you gradually got to know people in other departments.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3653.03097,3683.84546"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/215","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Did you become a member of a college?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3683.84546,3687.46311"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/216","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, I think we were all assigned to a college. And mine was not one of the more glamorous ones, but—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3687.46311,3697.84177"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/217","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Which one was it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3697.84177,3699.64273"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/218","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e It was Timothy Dwight. I used to joke that it was the annex to the Greyhound bus station because it was right at the extreme edge of the campus. And all of those residential colleges are supposed to have certain atmospheres and certain, I don't know, specialties and all that. And I never spent enough time to realize what the student culture was. There were a couple of nice things about being attached to a residential college. One was that you could go and eat there for free. And the other was that all the colleges did have a specialty, and so they might have special lecture series that they'd invite you to. And one time I remember being very thrilled because Jimmy Carter came to speak, and it was right before he became a presidential candidate but he wasn't yet. And so at the time he was just a southern politician and nobody knew anything about him, but then like the next week or so he was in the running for President of the United States, and that was something certainly that was very nice to have access to, that kind of thing. But otherwise I can't say that I at least made much use of that residential college attraction.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3699.64273,3794.87982"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/219","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Was there any obvious feminist activity on campus at that time in the early '70s when you came?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3794.87982,3802.93158"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/220","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm sure there was. I just am trying to think whether—how I might have been aware of that if I was. I really don't recall at that point knowing people who were in the forefront of the feminist movement or anything. Whereas it's interesting, back in my Cambridge days there was a certain period where I shared a very small house with two other people, one had been a friend of mine from Newnham, and the other one was another American who'd come over as I had to study for maybe a year or so. And anyway then she stayed on. And first of all she was very politically active on the left and she was also a committed feminist. And every single day one of those two topics if not both would figure in our conversations. But I just don't recall meeting any such person at Yale, but I'm sure there must have been a lot of them, but I just didn't encounter them or that's not where my own interests were going at those times. I don't know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3802.93158,3884.41562"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/221","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Especially since it was so soon after the Black Panther that—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3884.41562,3906.5495"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/222","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e I know, I know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3906.5495,3908.50744"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/223","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Suddenly all the politics seems to have evaporated in a way?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3908.50744,3913.29234"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/224","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Right, right, yeah, it was strange, it was very strange.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3913.29234,3918.32766"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/225","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e I asked you about how comfortable you felt coming into Yale as the new girl on the block. One of the reasons why I ask you that question is that a number of people have told me of their own experiences as junior faculty at Yale, both men and women, not just women, that they felt and experienced a very great gulf between junior and senior faculty, between junior and tenured faculty. And indeed one or two people have been mentioned to me as almost notorious in not having anything to do with junior faculty, not making any investment in them because why should we, they're not going to be here forever. And so would actually actively not help or work with or have anything to do socially certainly with their junior colleagues. And I just wondered if you had any sense of that in classics particularly, which was your own department, that there was this great gulf between junior and senior faculty which could be rather unwelcoming actually.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3918.32766,3994.37019"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/226","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I did not feel that. I felt that the people with whom I had the most interaction, such as the chairman and—I guess it would have been mainly the chairman, but other people, other senior faculty members too, I found them to be helpful rather than the reverse and quite polite and nice. What did happen more and more at Yale, probably in later—in years after I had left it really came to the fore, although there was a certain amount of tension even when I was there—there was a lot of what I would call political conflict. Not so much with politics outside the university as within the university. And there were a lot of people who I think got caught in the middle between two professors, senior professors. And a lot of that could be very unpleasant.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=3994.37019,4060.36928"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/227","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e What sort of political tensions? How would you describe them?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4060.36928,4064.84462"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/228","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, yeah, it had to do with how the university was run, and it really boiled down to liberal and conservative as it would be in the outside world, if you were talking about who should be President or something like that. But it was also just within the university. Were certain classes of students getting too many perks? Or what should be your admissions criteria for the undergraduate college, etc. You can imagine. And how much of a racial component there should be, probably how many women we should be admitting, etc., etc. So for some of my colleagues it was pretty unpleasant, even in those early days. And I think it just got worse over time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4064.84462,4117.92545"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/229","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Do you think as a junior faculty member new to—it was your first job—that a lot of your energy was simply concentrated on getting through what you had to get through?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4117.92545,4133.45307"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/230","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh of course yeah, just preparing the courses, that was a big big thing, absolutely.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4133.45307,4140.5044"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/231","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Turning to teaching, what kind of students did you have? Was it a big school, the classics department?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4140.5044,4148.37881"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/232","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, the classes were never huge because it was—we're talking classics here. I did teach some of those, the kind of courses you take in the freshman year where sometimes there's like a basic literature course or a basic humanities course, and some of those were classically oriented. So those classes might be quite big. But other classes could be like 15 students, sometimes as small as that, or ten or something.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4148.37881,4180.91318"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/233","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Were they evenly divided between men and women?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4180.91318,4205.55587"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/234","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e I have the feeling that most of the time there were more guys there, but I think that unless it would have been a very small class I can't really think that I had any all-male classes.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4205.55587,4225.09428"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/235","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e But I'm sure the males were in the early days probably predominant.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4225.09428,4230.50227"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/236","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Did you ever have any problems with authority?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4230.50227,4234.10157"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/237","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e You mean exerting—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4234.10157,4236.34733"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/238","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4236.34733,4236.79572"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/239","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e No, no, no, no. Everybody was pretty polite I would say.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4236.79572,4242.16724"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/240","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Did you form any impression of the women undergraduates that you had to teach? Because they were the early classes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4242.16724,4251.10425"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/241","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, the people that I remember from my Yale days are graduate students and not undergraduates with very few exceptions. And most of those that I remember, and why this should be I don't know, except that maybe the boys spoke up more, I do remember some of the boys more than I remember the girls. I can remember girls being in the class, but I tend to remember some particular incident about the boys more than I do the girls.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4251.10425,4287.68033"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/242","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, well they do say that—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4287.68033,4290.79613"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/243","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e And when I hear myself admitting this now of course I'm really ashamed. I'm thinking why didn't I provide more support to those young women, and of course I had no idea that I wasn't providing support at the time. But it's just in hindsight. Some of these things are very revealing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4290.79613,4314.33712"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/244","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, well it's one of the interesting things about being able to review these things that we make so many assumptions about ourselves and then we really sit down and think about them and we have to reassess.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4314.33712,4331.17528"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/245","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, absolutely.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4331.17528,4332.50113"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/246","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e It just shows you how much we change culturally, each of us. We're not fixed organisms at all. You said that when you joined classics as far as you knew that there was one other woman in the department who unfortunately died in the car crash. I just wondered if with her for that very short initial time and then when the other women came, whether there was any sense of you making common cause simply because you were women.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4332.50113,4367.76405"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/247","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e No, no.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4367.76405,4369.08201"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/248","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e None at all, no.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4369.08201,4370.83342"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/249","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e I just didn't—well, Anne I hardly knew. I'm trying to recall if maybe she might even have been on leave or something, because I barely have a memory of her. Her husband was chairman, so obviously I had a lot to do with him, but I'm just wondering if maybe she might have been on leave, because I just have such little memory of her at all. And Susan, I don't know, I guess we just—our fields had nothing in common. It's not that there was any hostility or anything, we were perfectly pleasant to one another, we just never became friends really.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4370.83342,4417.96177"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/250","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Were there other women on the faculty elsewhere that you got to know?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4417.96177,4423.60461"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/251","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Not faculty, no, just graduate students. I had one very good friend among the graduate student population.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4423.60461,4431.37363"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/252","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e I suppose maybe in the early '70s outside of the English department there were so very few women on the faculty even at a junior level that maybe you just were very scattered over a wide area.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4431.37363,4447.24348"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/253","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah I think that was—yeah I know, and especially since they put us all in different residential colleges. Not that being in the same residential college would even guarantee that you'd be likely to see the same person very frequently but at least there would be some chance of it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4447.24348,4469.79264"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/254","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Did you feel isolated?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4469.79264,4471.47082"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/255","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e I can't say that I did. You mean pining for other women to talk to and stuff? I can't say that I did. I don't know, maybe I was just preoccupied with other things then I guess. Like the teaching and just—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4471.47082,4489.66334"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/256","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah and I suppose also if you weren't particularly politically active either maybe that also makes one live in a different way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4489.66334,4508.76177"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/257","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Right, right, of course.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4508.76177,4511.9807"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/258","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e You had been there a year or two when affirmative action was extended to the universities in 1972. That would have been when there was the federal obligation then to impose affirmative action in universities. I just wondered if you had any—were you conscious of that going on at Yale in '72, '73 after the law was promulgated.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4511.9807,4538.8984"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/259","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e I do recall people talking about it. I can't say that I have very clear memories. Just that it did come up and it was something. It still comes up today. This question of how much we should try to redress the unfairness of the past and therefore perhaps be unfair to some people who are part of the current crop.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4538.8984,4566.66563"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/260","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah I certainly think that—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4566.66563,4569.34764"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/261","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e It's a hard issue.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4569.34764,4571.57832"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/262","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e One of the things that's come up in the archives when I've gone through them is the debate seemed to focus very much on whether or not there should be quotas, X number of women should be appointed, X number of minorities should be appointed, to some extent to redress the balance. And that was the big debate at Yale as far as I can see from the written record. I just wondered what your perception of it was as somebody there teaching.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4571.57832,4608.53543"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/263","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e I think that everybody probably had the same conversations. Not that everybody felt the same way about it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4608.53543,4616.97587"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/264","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Do you think it was a big preoccupation on the faculty at the time?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4616.97587,4623.18007"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/265","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e I think it's something that people thought about, yeah. Especially maybe those who had been there longer, because there would be bigger changes that they would notice, having been there longer, I would think the population of the faculty and the students would change quite a bit or could have changed quite a bit.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4623.18007,4647.49281"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/266","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e And certainly it was after '72 when there were a lot more young women appointed on faculty. There's absolutely no doubt about that when you look at the faculty lists from '72 onwards. Though some departments seemed to have interesting omissions. I think sometimes the argument was put that there weren't any women in the pipeline. Then the counterargument was well you're just not looking. I don't know whether there were these sorts of internal conversations going on in classics at that time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4647.49281,4684.07691"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/267","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I wouldn't have been in a position to hire anybody or to participate in those decisions at all.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4684.07691,4692.85896"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/268","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e That was very much a senior—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4692.85896,4695.92013"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/269","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, that would have been very much for the people with tenure to do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4695.92013,4702.45234"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/270","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e I think the whole issue of appointing people at a junior level does bring me to I think the thing that is the major issue, and that's the tenure business. When you were hired at Yale was that a term appointment?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4702.45234,4720.22769"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/271","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e You mean was I told that it would be for three years or five years or something? I can't recall that it was defined.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4720.22769,4747.41663"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/272","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e But was the issue of tenure raised early on about whether or not you would—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4747.41663,4753.7133"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/273","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Not that I recall, no.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4753.7133,4754.36729"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/274","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Not that you recall. So my understanding is from the Yale tenure system as it was then was that people were hired at a junior level but as they say many were called but few were chosen actually to then become part of the senior tenured faculty. And I just wondered how much as a junior person you were aware of that and how much maybe you would have been looking to or hoping that you might have been at Yale in a permanent way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4754.36729,4794.35766"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/275","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, my understanding of my situation was again just by looking at those who were already there and seeing what happened to them. And my understanding was that people who were newly hired had like seven or eight years to be at Yale and to do what they were going to do to prove their merits.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4794.35766,4826.00281"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/276","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e And then after that a decision would be made about whether they could stay or go. And that really was pretty much borne out by my own experience. The one thing that I have to stress that I think was a big big plus on Yale's side, and what they offered was very important, they offered these junior faculty fellowships, and so you could take a year off and write. And I spent the year in England, and I was working on translating this topic of my thesis, and doing some more work on that. But it was a very nice perk to be able to go and live abroad for a year. And so I don't think I was ever really cut out to be this kind of academic, just because writing for publication was so hard for me. But I think given that I couldn't really have expected any other outcome besides what there was. I don't feel that the university was unfair to me. I think they really—I was very well treated by the people in authority there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4826.00281,4908.60822"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/277","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e I've heard it—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4908.60822,4910.40956"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/278","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e And I'm just speaking for myself. I'm sure there are other people who had legitimate grievances. And there may have been prejudice against some women because they were women. I can certainly understand that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4910.40956,4926.13388"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/279","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e But there is this thing of publish or perish. I think certainly in a lot of universities it is your publication record is the one that gets you to progress through the system rather than necessarily your service or teaching. And I think it was true at Yale very definitely. So if you don't publish then it's harder for you to make your case if you wanted to make your case.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4926.13388,4957.94959"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/280","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, absolutely, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4957.94959,4959.73639"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/281","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Would you say then that your primary interest was in teaching?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4959.73639,4964.63448"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/282","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh yes. Yeah it always was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4964.63448,4967.74123"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/283","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Rather than the academic writing, research I should say.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4967.74123,4971.72227"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/284","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Right, right, yeah, yeah, I hadn't realized how hard it was going to be for me to do that. It's not that I am lacking interest in all sorts of subject areas in classics, because clearly I'm not. I am interested in that, and I reflect that in my teaching to this day. But it's just it didn't work out for me to be a writer.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=4971.72227,5001.257"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/285","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e So the research writing aside, and we've talked a little bit about teaching, did you as a junior faculty member, were you involved at all in any service jobs, service job, administrative jobs?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5001.257,5015.73931"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/286","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e No, no, no, no.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5015.73931,5017.92223"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/287","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e None at all. Because again I bring that up because a number of people have told me and indeed I've read it in the literature many many times that at the period when you were making your way in university life that the few women often not just in Yale but generally were spread rather thin over administrative jobs simply because there were so very few of them, but there was this obligation because of affirmative action to make women visible in committee work and director of this or chair of that or whatever. And so women often, certainly from the literature, felt that they were doing more than their fair share in their view of these kinds of jobs. But you were never subjected to that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5017.92223,5073.07502"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/288","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I'm not clear what kind of jobs these are. Are you saying—you're not talking about secretarial positions.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5073.07502,5082.05001"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/289","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e No, no, I'm talking about I don't know, director of graduate studies, or board member for this or being on a committee like for example there was the committee for the status of women at Yale as there was in many other universities.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5082.05001,5112.60859"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/290","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e And even junior faculty were often on these committees simply because there weren't enough senior faculty women to go around.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5112.60859,5122.6925"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/291","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't recall being on a committee like that, no.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5122.6925,5128.22858"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/292","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e It's interesting because I've certainly talked to some other women who indeed were on university committees even though they were junior faculty simply because they were women because there weren't any other women to do it. But that was clearly not your—you talked a little earlier about Christine Havelock, she's an art historian. And I think you said that she was very encouraging to you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5128.22858,5161.88604"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/293","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e No, I really had nothing much to do with her, but I don't know, her husband was very encouraging to me, and maybe the fact that he had a wife who was on the faculty predisposed him to be gracious to women or something, I don't know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5161.88604,5185.94808"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/294","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e But you would never have called her a mentor or anything like that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5185.94808,5192.44966"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/295","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e No, no, no, no.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5192.44966,5194.94426"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/296","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Was there anybody else at Yale who might have taken on that mentoring role for you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5194.94426,5202.90759"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/297","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e A woman?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5202.90759,5204.39695"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/298","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e A woman or a man.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5204.39695,5206.87294"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/299","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e I really can't think of anybody.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5206.87294,5210.33046"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/300","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e There isn't a right or wrong answer. You looked awfully worried there. I'm just curious to see what each individual experience was. Certainly I've met women who were mentored by men and others who weren't and some who were mentored by women and others who weren't. So I think it's very much an individual experience. Certainly at that time there was no institutional structure for things like mentoring. That's why I'm curious to see what the individual experience was. You said a little while ago that you really liked teaching and that it was teaching that you felt that that was what you really wanted to do. I just wondered what input, what changes maybe that you were involved with in terms of curriculum.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5210.33046,5271.41883"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/301","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, one thing that really did impress me very favorably about Yale was that we were, even the most junior of us faculty members, were given a lot of latitude in planning our elective courses. And I had a course on Roman women for one semester that was very very small. Nobody said anything about the fact that the enrollment was very low and that we had a very wonderful time. And I had other experiences like that. So there was a lot of flexibility there to plan one's own courses, and I really liked that a lot.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5271.41883,5320.00484"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/302","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e And there was absolutely no opposition to teaching courses about women's issues at all?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5320.00484,5326.8337"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/303","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e No, no, no, no, no.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5326.8337,5329.74097"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/304","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't think that was true in all departments.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5329.74097,5334.072"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/305","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't know. But I suspect it probably was, but I don't know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5334.072,5340.76035"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/306","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e So you felt really free or liberated to do whatever you—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5340.76035,5346.44736"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/307","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, I was rather surprised actually that nobody raised any fuss about that. We all had to do certain required courses that weren't so much fun like Greek and Latin prose composition. But yeah then there were some other things as well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5346.44736,5366.64704"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/308","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Did you enjoy teaching those sorts of courses, designing them and teaching them?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5366.64704,5386.03945"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/309","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, yeah, really did. But I also enjoyed just the ordinary required courses as well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5386.03945,5391.76428"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/310","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Nuts and bolts, yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5391.76428,5393.54905"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/311","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e And then I think pretty much everybody had to teach these courses that they're freshman courses that I think this is before people have even declared a major, so they weren't necessarily specifically for classicists, but they were literature in translation.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5393.54905,5416.54456"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/312","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e And this happened to be classical literature, but those courses were also quite nice to teach. Even though they weren't at all specialized, they were on a pretty elementary level. But they were fun because you got to see a real cross-section of the student body there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5416.54456,5439.12491"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/313","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e I suspect too they were probably quite popular.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5439.12491,5442.96131"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/314","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, everybody had to take one of these courses in some fashion. But anyway I always enjoyed those too.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5442.96131,5452.53444"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/315","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Did you ever think—I don't know whether it was something you'd ever considered. Had you ever considered to stay on at Yale, that you might go into administration or attempt to go into the central administration? Because I certainly know of quite a number of people from the same era who knew they weren't going to make it through tenure but made a very successful translation into administrative jobs and did extremely well in them. I wondered if that was something that you had considered.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5452.53444,5494.09719"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/316","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e No, I never did, and I never knew exactly what kinds of positions would have been open. I remember being so impressed by Hanna Gray because at a certain point she was at Yale and then wasn't she president of the University of Chicago?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5494.09719,5515.5454"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/317","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e That's right, yes, she was a provost at Yale.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5515.5454,5519.82398"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/318","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, provost at Yale and president at Chicago.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5519.82398,5524.09131"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/319","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e And then she was acting president after Kingman Brewster for a year, but then she went to Chicago after that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5524.09131,5533.54877"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/320","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, yeah, anyway there's somebody who was an administrator and had a real impact. But I don't know, I don't think administration is my bag at all. Since I've been at Fieldston I had two years as department head, and there was an emergency in our department and I did it the first year just to help out and then the second year just because they still needed somebody. But it was awful. It was just too much to do and not enough of it was interesting. And I can't imagine that college administration would be too different from that. I'm glad that people are able to get administrative jobs if that's what they want to do. But I'm not one of them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5533.54877,5592.01889"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/321","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e I think some people do these things because they have to be done and then others do them because they positively enjoy what they get out of them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5592.01889,5605.16442"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/322","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh yeah they're important positions to hold. I know that. And somebody has to do that work, that is true. It just never really appealed to me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5605.16442,5618.24519"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/323","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e You knew that you wouldn't get tenure at Yale. So how did you figure out what you were going to do next?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5618.24519,5643.93107"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/324","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I was pretty nervous about the future, and I had really no idea of how things were going to turn out. Anyway I was very lucky when I left Yale because I went to the American Philological Convention that Christmas, which is where—the Christmas New Year's holiday is when they always have them. And I met my first Latin teacher at Bryn Mawr. And I had stayed in touch with her all those years, and anyway it just happened they were looking for a leave replacement at Barnard. And it was supposed to be a one-year position and so I took that with great gratitude. And in fact it was extended for not quite three years, two and a half years. My job ended in December. And so at that point I was unemployed for one semester and I was applying for academic jobs and not getting any response from anybody.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5643.93107,5734.63315"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/325","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e And so then I did apply for one position, it was some kind of a foundation that had some kind of academic focus. And I applied for that and I didn't get it. And then I started looking in the paper for high school jobs. And so I think that Ethical—that is Fieldston—was the only school that I had applied to at that point. And I got a response right away and was asked up to the school for an interview, and I was lucky enough to get that job. So I didn't have to go farther than that. And what would have happened if I hadn't been able to get a teaching job, I just would have had to find something else to do, and I don't know what that would have been. And that was pretty scary to me thinking I'm really qualified for nothing except teaching. So what am I going to do if I can't get a teaching job? But fortunately didn't turn out that way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5734.63315,5804.5935"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/326","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e What was it like making the move from higher education, from university level teaching of the classics, to high school?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5804.5935,5812.61841"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/327","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, it was hard in one way in that the maturity of the students is obviously quite different on the high school and middle school level, because I was teaching middle school students at that time and still am as a matter of fact. And so the whole issue of discipline was something I'd never had to face on a college level. And so it was quite difficult. Fortunately my colleagues, especially the Barnard graduate who was very instrumental in my hiring was very supportive, and the other people in the language department were very supportive as well. And we normally have a three-year probationary period and at the end of that time—sometimes people get an extension but that's very rare. Usually after that they just decide whether they would like to keep you on a permanent basis or not. And I was lucky enough to be kept on. I was very happy with that. So worked out OK. But it was a difficult transition for sure. And although I have been lucky enough to have some classes in ancient Greek, they have been fewer than the ones I used to have at Yale obviously. And we don't get up to such a high level in studying the Latin literature. Everything goes pretty slowly, even with wonderful students. They just aren't capable of moving so fast as the ones on the university level. So a lot of differences.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5812.61841,5909.11192"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/328","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e What do you think the rewards of teaching in a high school are compared to teaching at the university level?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5909.11192,5917.08456"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/329","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I think first of all you're much more likely to get to know more students over a longer period because you tend to have the same ones over and over again. And there's a fresh quality to those younger students because they're often very direct and the college students might sometimes be a little shy about expressing their opinions so forcefully because they'll say oh gee how am I going to say anything about Plato, I read one dialogue of Plato. These kids have read no dialogues of Plato and they still have an opinion. So there are a lot of rewards just from their youth and enthusiasm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5917.08456,5989.42364"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/330","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Did your experience of teaching at Yale and then for the year or two at Barnard, did they inform your teaching at high school level at all? What did you bring from your Yale experience to high school?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=5989.42364,6006.69799"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/331","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Well I certainly in terms of the content of the courses, what I wanted to focus on, developing my own interests and trying to pass those on, and even if you're teaching on a middle school level if you're interested in ancient history you can bring that in, you can certainly modify the content of your teaching according to your own interests.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6006.69799,6015.03539"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/332","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e So I would say that was probably the biggest thing, the benefit that I got from Yale that did carry over to my teaching of younger students, that I'd had a chance to explore different areas of classics and have maybe something interesting to say about them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6015.03539,6039.38691"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/333","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e How would you describe or sum up your philosophy of teaching?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6039.38691,6045.0749"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/334","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't think I could. Gee.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6045.0749,6048.6872"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/335","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Because quite clearly—I ask you that because I did fairly recently as you know meet one of your ex graduate students from Yale, which is how I got to know of your name, and he was incredibly effusive about your teaching skill.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6048.6872,6071.34655"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/336","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Really.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6071.34655,6072.3742"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/337","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, and he had not done any Latin at all when he came to be a graduate student, but he just thought you were a terrifically good teacher and enjoyed your classes enormously. And of course that's why I contacted you. So clearly you've got something that makes you into a great teacher.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6072.3742,6099.54575"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/338","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I still don't know that I could define my philosophy, but I think what's important to me is my love of learning about the ancient world myself as much as I can, and I would like to pass on to my students some of why I feel the ancient world is important, why it matters to study what those people with such flawed civilizations, why they have something to teach us. And I still am very interested in the subject matter, and I enjoy talking about it to students, and many of them are interested in the same things. Some of them are not. That's true. But you do your best to spread the good news.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6099.54575,6159.88657"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/339","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e What do you think your—looking back on your teaching career, which is now well over 30 years, what do you think your best moment in the classroom was, is?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6159.88657,6175.68118"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/340","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Gee.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6175.68118,6176.69602"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/341","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Even going back to Yale.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6176.69602,6179.22274"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/342","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, yeah, well, I'm still thinking about that one small class I taught on women's studies, and I can just see the students sitting in the classroom and just having a nice conversation about what things were like for women in antiquity. And I still have this little gift which—this was from the boy in the class and during spring vacation he had visited Beirut I think, which was a pretty violent place to visit at that particular moment I think. Anyway he had brought this back as a gift from antiquity.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6179.22274,6227.03041"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/343","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e And gave it to you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6227.03041,6229.52937"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/344","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e And gave it to me. And I thought this is so nice.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6229.52937,6235.9809"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/345","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e This is one of your Yale students?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6235.9809,6239.42809"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/346","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah one of my Yale students.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6239.42809,6242.84747"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/347","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e It's absolutely fabulous. What a beautiful piece of clay to have. Terra cotta. Isn't it beautiful?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6242.84747,6250.59696"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/348","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e I know, I know. Isn't that nice? And it's an ancient woman. So there we are. It's perfectly appropriate to what I taught. So I think whenever I can bring something that is really some aspect of ancient civilization that may not be too obvious to today's youth or to anybody who hasn't studied classical antiquity, because there are a lot of strange things that they got up to in those days, and whenever the students are astonished in some way or excited or pleased about something that I'm able to tell them, then I think that's what I'm really there for.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6250.59696,6314.50051"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/349","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e How do you feel after a class has gone particularly well?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6314.50051,6319.82338"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/350","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I feel really on top of the world. And if I didn't do something right and I thought oh gee, I should have been able to convey that more clearly, then I feel bad. But if it goes really well then I'm very satisfied.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6319.82338,6342.04428"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/351","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Looking back on your own experience in higher education, and that would be—I'm thinking of your teaching experience at Yale and then at Barnard—would you encourage a young woman today say in your senior class in high school, encourage her towards an academic life nowadays?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6342.04428,6365.67013"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/352","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e You mean teaching on the college level? Yes, I would. I think there are a lot of opportunities out there and even at the time when I was at Yale, Yale isn't the whole picture. There are plenty of other colleges that are less elite but really wonderful, and people can get good jobs there. And I think if that is what you're really drawn to, if you're really drawn to a life of scholarship that includes teaching as well, I think you might as well go for it. And if you're really not so much interested or can't do the scholarship end, then I see nothing wrong with going in for elementary or through high school teaching. If you really like to teach I think that's also a good choice.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6365.67013,6429.18459"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/353","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Do you think—I'm trying to think how best to ask this question, and I can only go on my experience of Britain where there has been in recent years in terms of trying to measure excellence in British universities, there's been a growing importance placed on one's research output as opposed to any other aspect of your academic life, and that in a way I think would be fair to say has probably taken over everything else, so the research and writing is privileged way beyond teaching for example, and I just wondered if you had any views on that, whether that's true of American universities and whether you feel in any way that's a good thing or a bad thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6429.18459,6488.20228"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/354","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, while I was listening to you I was just thinking of this whole issue of adjunct teachers. Have you encountered that? Do you know what—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6488.20228,6501.57978"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/355","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e I know what they are, yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6501.57978,6504.43254"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/356","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e OK. Then you know that they're treated just horribly. They have virtually no benefits at most places and they are expected to just teach these elementary courses, which mostly aren't very interesting, they're not expected to do any research. And it's just horrible that those positions even exist, because nobody should have to live that way. And so the real question is I guess do people value the research end of things too much, do they place too much importance on that at the expense of anything else that a person may have to contribute, such as teaching skills. I certainly think that's not a good way for a university to go. In other words make promotion dependent only on how many books you've written. I think the teaching skills—because these people all have to teach as well, no?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6504.43254,6571.61363"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/357","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6571.61363,6572.07898"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/358","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e They do. And if they're going to come out being lousy teachers then I'm not sure how that enhances the university they're at, however many wonderful publications they've done.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6572.07898,6585.81063"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/359","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Because certainly when I was an undergraduate even in the '70s there were many people on faculty who didn't hardly publish at all, but were excellent teachers and highly valued for that.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6585.81063,6609.09352"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/360","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e But I do think there has been a cultural change.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6609.09352,6613.99093"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/361","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e But now you think it's really different.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6613.99093,6617.90217"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/362","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e I think there has been a cultural change, and maybe it's different—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6617.90217,6623.76902"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/363","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Maybe it depends on the field too, do you think?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6623.76902,6629.13747"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/364","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Maybe it does. I don't know. I think the concerning thing would be that so many of the adjunct teachers seem to be women.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6629.13747,6640.82938"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/365","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, although the ones that immediately spring to my mind all happen to be men. One of them is an arts teacher in my school, and I think that's fairly common if you're in the performing or fine arts, you tend to have a lot of part-time jobs. And so there was one time in the recent past, maybe might be four or five years ago now, the NYU adjuncts had an uprising and anyway I can't remember what the outcome was, but I think maybe the adjuncts got a little bit more of a salary or more of something. I hope they got more respect and better treatment, but anyway, it's something that really should be of concern to everybody, because I think it's just horrible for an institution of higher learning to treat people really like slaves. It's just awful. And most of the people that I know as I said who are adjuncts are men, but I think that's just coincidence probably.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6640.82938,6721.54668"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/366","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, it has created a two-tiered system within institutions.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6721.54668,6725.91103"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/367","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah very much so.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6725.91103,6728.32893"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/368","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e The elite and the peons.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6728.32893,6730.74004"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/369","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah and the people who are in those adjunct positions usually feel just awful about the way they're regarded by people who are otherwise their peers. These are people who have PhDs, a lot of them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6730.74004,6748.53157"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/370","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah and that's a long investment.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6748.53157,6751.40755"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/371","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah it is, and to take a position like that—I think they have good relationships with their students. I think the students do value them. And the irony is that a lot of what they're teaching in terms of content is exactly the same as their luckier colleagues, the regular professors. So it's not good, that system, I think.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6751.40755,6780.07491"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/372","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah I think higher education is still very hard, very hard for a lot of people. And it does make me think back to where we started, was with your mother. There's your mother back in the '40s, '30s and '40s, mother of six children, professional lawyer, and some might say she had it all that point. A lot of all I have to say with six children. But—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6780.07491,6813.38743"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/373","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e But you might also say that she gave it all. She was doing so much. It's not that somebody handed it to her on a platter, but she was lucky to have the kind of support that she had from people at the law school for instance, and it's interesting, when she died we had the funeral in Moscow, Idaho, which is right up in the narrow part up near the Canadian border, because that's where she had lived for her young years and everything, and also virtually all her siblings live in that—her surviving siblings lived in that area. And so at the service various people got up and spoke as one does on these occasions, and there was somebody from the law school, and he talked about what an impression she had made at the time when she was a young lawyer there. And what a pioneer she had been. And the fact that that was so many years ago and people still found that an impressive thing, that was—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6813.38743,6906.74417"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/374","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, to do it even today would be incredibly impressive.\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6906.74417,6908.59674"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/375","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6908.59674,6909.8048"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/376","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Especially even today when one could have the impression that women can have it all if they want it. But it's still very difficult.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6909.8048,6919.40403"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/377","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah it is, it is very difficult.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6919.40403,6922.57817"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/378","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e So your mother must have been a remarkable woman.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6922.57817,6926.11882"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/379","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah she really was indeed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6926.11882,6928.45779"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/380","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e How would you like to be remembered?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6928.45779,6931.1606"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/381","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh boy, well, I'd like to be kindly remembered by my family and I'm sure that I will. And I would like to be remembered by my students. Certainly not all of them but some of them, I'd like them to think of me from time to time, and I'm sure some of them will.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6931.1606,6952.56471"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/382","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e To be remembered as a teacher.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6952.56471,6954.80588"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/383","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Sorry.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6954.80588,6955.53379"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/384","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e To be remembered as a teacher.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6955.53379,6962.60306"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/385","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e As a teacher, yeah, yeah, right, right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6962.60306,6966.36577"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/386","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eInterviewer:\u003c/strong\u003e Thank you very much. Thank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6966.36577,6969.26875"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/387","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRolly Phillips:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, it has been a real pleasure to talk to you, and it's like psychoanalysis where you come up—\r","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6969.26875,6977.85417"},{"id":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271/transcript/31936/annotation/388","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"END OF FILE","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://yalemssa.aviaryplatform.com/collections/970/collection_resources/48966/file/122271#t=6977.85417,6969.52163"}]}]}]}